UPDATE: the new GASP Anti-Spam WordPress plugin has been released and is available in the WordPress Plugin Repository.
THIS is the ALTERNATIVE TO AKISMET that provides the SOLUTION to being Flagged as a Spammer! Spread it throughout the blogosphere and your comments will work again.
Are YOUR Comments Banned by Akismet? Image credit Hurricane Softwares
URGENT: Please DO NOT leave comments in unrelated blog posts in this and especially in OTHER blogs about the Akismet issue.
Leaving comments in the blogs of those who have commented that they flag non-spam as spam solves nothing and brings you down to their level.
If you wish to respond to them please do it IN THIS POST or on your own blog.
If you identify yourself in your comments it reflects badly on you and there is a very real possibility that they will flag you as a spammer!
Leaving comments in their blogs using fake information is a waste of your time. It will only make them feel they are correct in what they are doing and they will simply delete the posts.
If they do not understand now nothing more we can say or do is likely to make any difference at all.
NEW: I have created two test pages anyone can use to test their names and URLs. See Akismet Test Pages.
UPDATE: June 7 Akismet has removed the ability to use the test page mentioned in this post to determine if your comments are being sent to either SPAM or being deleted outright by Akismet.
MESSAGE TO AKISMET: How does removing our ability to find out if our names or URLs are blocked by your plugin improve this situation? That makes this worse – not better – and makes you look guilty. You should be willing to TELL US that your plugin does indeed delete comments. If that is how you believe it SHOULD work honesty is the best policy.
If you love commenting in blogs you are in for a shock. Did you know that Akismet is censoring comments?
Yes, there are still plenty of really spammy comments showing up in our spam folder so it LOOKS like we get to moderate them.
When I have tested in the past because Dr. Ann Voisin of Linda Cristas College I always found comments from their students about Toys Period in my SPAM folder and was able to rescue them.
I owe Dr. Ann and her students an apology. They were correct.
Akismet IS censoring their comments
And mine – and probably yours too!
Yesterday and today I saw with my own eyes that comments I wrote and left in blogs I moderate were simply vanishing into thin air. I waited 48 hours just to make sure they weren’t just delayed. They were not.
My very real comments went straight into the bit bucket!
In Are You Banned By Akismet For Spamming? Ashish wrote:
Akismet system relies heavily upon blog owners marking your comments/trackbacks as spam and reporting them back to Akismet as such via the WordPress plugin. This means that many innocent bloggers are “false positives” in the Akismet system due to either malicious or ignorant behavior on the part of other bloggers.
What we need to realize is that many bloggers have a VERY BROAD definition of spam and if they report you as a spammer you could be banned even if you have never left a spam comment in your life and don’t even know what a keyword is!
Here are some unusual definitions of spam that I have come across:
- Any comment that has a business in the URL field.
- Any comment left by anyone the blogger doesn’t recognize.
- Comments that include a link not related to their blog’s niche.
- Any comment that has keywords in the name field EVEN IN BLOGS THAT HAVE KEYWORDLUV installed.
- Any comment they don’t like.
- Any comment from a commentator they don’t like.
- Any trackback = spam to some bloggers because so many of them are from scraped or MFA (made for AdSense sites) – even high quality incoming links from major sites and blogs!
I hope any blogger reading this will reconsider what they are labeling spam. These all fit my definition of spam which I hope you’ll adopt. These really ARE SPAM:
- Comments that have nothing to do with your post including generic “one size fits all” comments.
- Comments that are lists of words or links to junk sites of any kind.
- Objectionable or profane comments and comments that link to adult or illegal sites.
- Any comment that is an advertisement for a business or another site even if it IS related to your blog.
- Copied text or comment spam.
- Comments that are obviously intended only as a way to slide in a link and mention of another site.
- Ridiculous suggestions to “keep posting”, requests for help subscribing, over-the-top flattery, insults (do they really think THAT would work?), “I just found you in a search engine” and short comments that add nothing to the conversation like “great post” or +1 or me too.
I want to encourage bloggers and especially CommentLuv bloggers to welcome QUALITY comments from business owners, entrepreneurs and bloggers. Please read my tips in that post on best practices for both bloggers and commentators.
UPDATE: Akismet has removed the ability to use that page to test to see if your comments are being sent to either SPAM or being deleted outright by Akismet.
I discussed this issue today Andy Bailey from CommentLuv and he sent me this:
Akismet Test link. By submitting a comment there you can determine whether it is being automatically deleted by Akismet or not.
This is NOT as simple as most might think. You might be ok when you enter your name one way but not another. Your comments might go through if you enter your URL some ways and not others. If you ever comment in KeywordLuv blogs any comment with @ one keyword might work while another with @ something else won’t.
Even if you test every combination you ever use in the name and URL fields Akismet might cause your comment to disappear based on any word in the comment itself.
Unless you test every comment you ever leave you will never really know if the blogger ever sees it until it appears live (or likely doesn’t)!
The bottom line for me is that this is totally unacceptable. I would rather have to pre-moderate every comment than have real commentators censored in a way that I never even see their comments.
Unless we start Tweeting to each other every time we leave a comment or send an email or use the contact form to ensure the blogger knows to look for our comments, an ever increasing number of comments will simply vanish.
We have these choices:
- Ask Akismet to clarify precisely how their plugin works and consider modifying this behavior.
- If Akismet will not change how their plugin works for everyone, at least let us opt out of this behavior so that we see every comment to moderate it.
- I was going to say that if they will not let us opt out they should at least NOTIFY US every time any information we use when commenting is banned but I can already predict they would not be willing to do that because then real spammers will simply change what they use.
- Find an alternative spam management plugin.
- Disable Akismet and switch to pre-moderating comments BEFORE they appear. If we just disable it our blogs will be flooded with objectionable real spam and we can not have that.
I call on all bloggers to make your feelings about this known to Akismet. You can try tweeting to them but they are not highly interactive on Twitter. A better way would be to use their contact form. Be specific about what you would like them to do.
If you know of an alternative plugin please let me know.
I am already not a big fan of WP-SpamFree because they block many words automatically including business and marketing and in many blogs if you trigger their spam filter you lose your comment. (In others you don’t and I do not know why. Perhaps someone will share that with us.)
If I do not hear back from Akismet and do not find an alternative I will disable Akismet and set this and all my blogs to pre-moderate all comments.
I hate to do that for two reasons:
- It makes it more difficult for commentators to use my Comment Share strategy. In blogs where comments are moderated I recommend saving the links where you leave comments and coming back later to see if they are visible. I use Tomboy Notes for that but others use spreadsheets.
- I dread finding out how many more comments are disappearing into the Akismet ether. I already review 150+ spam comments daily and rescue several real comments each time I check them.
Have any other recommendations? Please leave a comment. Not sure this applies to you? I urge you to go check to see if you are banned by Akismet. Do other bloggers a favor and leave a comment in this post either way so we can get an idea how many are being affected.
Here are the two comments I have left in the Akismet test blog post in case anyone reading this would like more details:
I have proven to my satisfaction that Akismet is deleting valid comments we as bloggers never see. If you get taken to a blank white page when you comment that comment probably got deleted.
If you sometimes use your full name and other times your first name one can be blocked and not the other. The same is true if you use your first name and your blog name as I often do. In non-KeywordLuv blogs I often put Gail from GrowMap so the blogger will recognize me as I am best known across the Internet as GrowMap but many prefer a first name.
If you comment in KeywordLuv enabled blogs you might have name @ keywords so you might be blocked using some keywords but not others. It is also possible that even if you come here and verify that the name, email and website you intend to use when commenting is ok but some word in your comment causes it to be blocked.
Akismet might treat http://YourDomain.com differently than http://www.YourDomain.com differently than http://YourDomain.com/ and individual PAGES on your site that you have left in the Website field might be blocked.
If you are going to be commenting you almost have to come here and test your entire comment first if you really want it to show up OR you could leave the comment and if it doesn’t show up immediately THEN come here and test.
I am not willing to let Akismet delete comments I never see. That is dangerous and censorship and it just won’t do. Why can obvious spam end up in my spam section but not all the real comments? Why are THEY singled out?
Either Akismet needs to change this or at least let us opt out of it OR we need an alternative that does not censor our commentators OR we will have to go to pre-moderation and moderate every comment.
Testing to see if GrowMap @ Support Small Businesses is blocked. It is. Then I tested to see if having that post in the Website was blocked. It is. Now I’m testing just using Gail and my home page works and have the link in the body of the comment. That doesn’t work either.
Any comment that includes a link to the post on my site about the importance of supporting small businesses is automatically censored by the Akismet plugin.
In case anyone wonders why I want bloggers to support small businesses it is because they are the solution to the economic crisis in the U.S. and elsewhere.Bloggers can choose to be a big part of the solution or they can delete (or let Akismet censor) quality comments from small local and online businesses and let our economies collapse because we are too blind to see where we are headed. You can find a link to that post on my best-of-growmap page and in the comment replies on most posts.
If you want to see what the Akismet test page looked like it is currently still in cache in the search engine and I will add before and after screen captures below:
Screen capture of what was on the page when I wrote this post:
What was at that URL when I tested and wrote this post - click to see Cache version while it works
Date and Time of Cache Version shown in the screen capture above
Screen capture of my comment live on that past when I wrote this post: (Only what would fit on one screen is shown below. The full comment is shown above.)
Cache version screen capture of my Comment Live on the Akismet test page
Screen capture of what is on that page since this post was published (click image to go there):
After this post went live the ability to test to see what Akismet blocks was removed; click image to go to that page now.
I can now see part of the two comments I left last night in Cache showing “Your comment is awaiting moderation“. Only one of them appears in the cache version for some reason.
Here is what I see when I go to that page now:
Comments that were live on that site last night are now "awaiting moderation".
AKISMET COMPLAINTS:
- NEW: Akismet Huge CrowdSourcing Fail – What Akismet is doing now is what Google search is planning to do later! CHANGE SEARCH ENGINES NOW- and encourage everyone you know and your readers and followers to do the same!
AKISMET ALTERNATIVE:
- See our complete anti-spam process
{ 366 comments… read them below or add one }
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Wow, I had no idea this was happening. I get a lot of spam but they are in the “spam” folder. Most are outright garbage with tons of links to bad sites. I’m surprised that Akismet doesn’t just dump these comments immediately and block the ip address from further comments. Hopefully they hear you Gail and fix this issue. Thanks for alerting us!
.-= Tim @ Classic Car Auto Insurance´s featured blog ..Save on Auto Insurance =-.
Twitter: GrowMap
June 16, 2010 at 3:29 pm
Twitter: @GrowMap
Hi Tim,
Your comment reveals why this is going to be such a serious problem. Akismet isn’t a person – it is an algorithm that is only as accurate as the bloggers clicking the spam button.
In blogs that put a check in a box Akismet DOES immediately delete all comments that are flagged as spam. The problem is that legitimate businesses and bloggers are also flagged as spammers – me for example. Do you really want to have all the comments I leave in your blog deleted instantly?
For those who wouldn’t care about that I ask if they really want all of THEIR OWN comments to be deleted or sent to spam. That IS happening to a lot of people we know. Many bloggers equate any business related URL with spam and boom – you’re gone.
Akismet could improve their algorithm in three ways I can think of off the top of my head:
1) Increase the number of spam reports before someone gets flagged as a spammer
2) Remove them from spam if some number of bloggers flag them as not spam (so the spamming/deleting of legitimate commentators is temporary instead of permanent)
3) To really increase accuracy identify a pool of trusted bloggers whose spam and not-spam clicks are weighted far more heavily. These need to be carefully chosen from among those who are selfless, not vindictive and clearly understand the difference between a relevant comment and spam.
.-= Gail @ Support Small Businesses´s featured blog ..Word of Mouth Marketing =-.
Twitter: LottoMan01
June 19, 2010 at 6:50 pm
Twitter: @LottoMan01
I thought number 2 was part of their algorithm?
As to 3, that would be a hard ask as you can never tell when someone has an ulterior motive.
.-= Sire´s featured blog ..Taking Off Your Clothes For The Greater Good =-.
Twitter: GrowMap
June 23, 2010 at 5:48 pm
Twitter: @GrowMap
Hi Sire,
Number 2 is but it takes way too many not-spam to affect a change. As for number 3 you can not tell who has ulterior motives and who doesn’t? It is very obvious to me. I’ll give you some examples of people who I believe would be absolutely trustworthy: Kristi Hines, Derek Semmler, Ron Cripps, Mary O’Brien – none of them would ever flag someone as spam vindictively and all are 100% honorable.
.-= growmap´s featured blog ..Building Traffic Using Anchor Text =-.
To address Claire’s point.
No, Akismet is not very effective at all for us.
What Akismet does is throw away about 10% of the first time business we would otherwise have had, and another 10% of the new friends we would have made if Akismet were not in place.
Finally, and most importantly, to congratulate Akimet for providing personal convenience at such a cost, in terms of human kindness, business profit is frankly just a bad decision all around.
If one wants to invite people to comment on a blog, one should never allow an Akismet to trash heartfelt efforts to accept such an invitation.
I appeal to Claire and to anyone else who is not seeing clearly to please please do something else to cope with spam. You have chosen a very rude and unnecessary group to speak in your name.
Lara
Twitter: GrowMap
June 17, 2010 at 8:44 pm
Twitter: @GrowMap
Thank you for your eloquent explanation of this issue Lara. It is one that takes some time to understand for many people – even me.
.-= growmap´s featured blog ..Word of Mouth Marketing =-.
That’s the problem with Akismet they decide what the scoring is. I would rather see the comment and decide if I want to approve it or not. There are plenty of other plugins to use plus they don’t have the restrictions that Akismet does before you have to purchase paid use of it.
Thanks for the tomboy notes tips – I’ve been looking for something like that for a long time.
Twitter: GrowMap
June 17, 2010 at 8:39 pm
Twitter: @GrowMap
Hi Leanne,
I agree that we need to SEE the comments. Maybe some hobbyist bloggers don’t (until it is THEIR comments that are being deleted) but business blogs and serious bloggers must not be insulting their commentators.
You’re welcome on the Tomboy Notes tip. It is a huge help in organizing my vast research and storing all the URLs I find in one place. Be sure to figure out the Notebook feature and when you create notes remember to add variations of words to make sure you can find your notes quickly again when you use the keyword search function.
Do read the post I’ll put in CommentLuv so you can use your optimum anchor text here to build traffic to your blog.
.-= growmap´s featured blog ..DoFollow CommentLuv KeywordLuv Community =-.
It’s shocking. The system needs to be more transparent.
.-= Rodney @ Arthritis Relief News´s featured blog ..Arthritis – Treating Mild Osteoarthritis Pain =-.
Twitter: GrowMap
June 17, 2010 at 8:35 pm
Twitter: @GrowMap
Hi Rodney,
Yes, that would certainly help.
.-= growmap´s featured blog ..Twitter Tools: Managing Multiple Twitter Accounts =-.
Akismet is very effective in sorting out all those spam comments. Its helps in remembering spam. It does the hard labor of monitoring for you.
Twitter: GrowMap
June 17, 2010 at 8:34 pm
Twitter: @GrowMap
Well Claire,
Akismet is very useful but we can simply not have it flagging real comments as spam. Maybe they’ll come back and rejoin the discussion here and make the necessary improvements to have it behave better.
.-= growmap´s featured blog ..Freelancers: How to Get More Freelance Work =-.
The way I see it though is one person’s spam may not be another’s, and I don’t want to contribute to them missing out on a comment they may want by telling Akismet it is spam. So I just delete.
Twitter: GrowMap
June 17, 2010 at 8:32 pm
Twitter: @GrowMap
Hi Eric,
If all bloggers were wise enough to clearly understand the difference between spam and comments they should just delete we wouldn’t have this problem!
.-= growmap´s featured blog ..Best Product Feed Solution for Yahoo Stores =-.
I wonder if I have the time to put into the ‘testing’ phase. Moreover I am of the firm view that they could do this.Aren’t these people in knowledge of the ‘relevancy’ aspect?
I believe they are and this is just a temporary doubt phase.
Twitter: GrowMap
June 17, 2010 at 8:31 pm
Twitter: @GrowMap
You could just wait until I finish testing and publish my results. Any reader who wants to know if their names or URLs have been flagged as spam at Akismet can use the Akismet test pages I provided for that purpose and to gather more data.
.-= growmap´s featured blog ..Twitter Tools: Managing Multiple Twitter Accounts =-.
Many website blogs are using tools to prevent spam comments. Most of the bloggers are looking for backlink to their websites.
Twitter: GrowMap
June 17, 2010 at 8:26 pm
Twitter: @GrowMap
Most blogs try to filter spam. There is absolutely nothing wrong with building links, making your site easier to find or using plugins that attract readers of other blogs back to your own site. That is what our CommentLuv community is all about.
.-= growmap´s featured blog ..How CommentLuv Grows Businesses and Blogs =-.
Twitter: udegbunamchuks
June 10, 2010 at 1:05 pm
Twitter: @udegbunamchuks
I’m going to deactivate Akismet and let Wp-Spam Free run alone and see what happens on my blog.
Twitter: GrowMap
June 10, 2010 at 8:28 pm
Twitter: @GrowMap
Hi Chuks,
Although I will be very interested in what you have to report, as a frequent commentator in blogs that use that plugin I find it very rude. I also object to it blocking words like business, marketing and selling.
Supporting small businesses is key to improving economic conditions around the world and any plugin that blocks our ability to discuss business is not one I can support or use.
.-= growmap´s featured blog ..Freelancers: How to Get More Freelance Work =-.
Twitter: mmangen
June 10, 2010 at 11:27 am
Twitter: @mmangen
Gail – glad to see this post. I had contacted Askimet when Ann at the college had also contacted me. (but then read others’ posts that they felt she wasn’t legit so I never really followed up with Askimet on their lack of reply).
I just tested myself on the blogs I have and it seems I’m not being sent to the spam bin nor disappearing entirely.
Is this all a result of someone being too trigger happy with the spam option vs the trash option? If we sent a comment to trash we aren’t marking them as spam, correct? That’s what I do if I find the comment to be somewhat questionable.
.-= Michelle Mangen @ Your Virtual Assistant´s featured blog ..Hate Paypal Fees? Check out the alternative =-.
Twitter: GrowMap
June 10, 2010 at 8:25 pm
Twitter: @GrowMap
Hi Michelle,
That is part of it and those who write comments in support of small businesses like I do are more likely to be reported as spammers. Many people equate all things related to business, marketing or selling as spam.
So yes, if people mark our comments as spam we get flagged and in blogs that have the box checked to “Automatically discard spam comments on posts older than a month” our comments are immediately deleted.
There is a larger issue here though. Comments are disappearing in blogs that do NOT have that box checked and when the name and URL are not flagged. Akismet appears to have increased their aggressiveness at deleting comments based on the words in the comment itself.
I sent you an email with additional information asking you to join in a discussion about the best way to proceed.
.-= growmap´s featured blog ..Word of Mouth Marketing =-.
Twitter: laforge129
June 10, 2010 at 9:27 am
Twitter: @laforge129
I think most people should realize that they do track comments and what people say. Read my article on the subject.
http://www.tech-linkblog.com/akismet-blocks-vpn-clients-from-posting
Twitter: GrowMap
June 10, 2010 at 10:11 am
Twitter: @GrowMap
I encourage readers of this post to read this new revelation from Paul Sylvester on his TechLinkBlog. There is far more to this issue that even what you can read in my post and all these comments.
I can confirm that the comments Paul wrote that included information about the white page after commenting issue NEVER APPEARED IN SPAM here. They were immediately deleted by Akismet.
That is true even though other comments Paul wrote the same day were immediately visible in this blog. That means that even your regular reader’s comments can be and ARE being immediately deleted by Akismet based on words in those comments.
In another comment on this page Alex from Akismet specifically said (jump to that comment using that link if you wish):
“The Akismet plugin for WordPress does not delete or hide spam comments unless the user has specifically requested it to, by checking the “discard spam comments on old posts” box. It’s controlled by the user, and totally optional.”
There is no doubt that Akismet DID selectively delete SOME of Paul’s comments but not all of them. What Alex wrote is clearly untrue.
For those who do not understand why this is so important I offer these two reasons:
1) Our time is one of our most precious assets. Having our comments disappear wastes our time.
2) It is imperative that we be able to find and share information about what we wish to know and products and services we want that are offered by small local and online businesses for whom buying International advertising (the Internet IS International not localized) is financially impractical and largely impossible.
We need to clearly understand that supporting small businesses is THE solution to the economic woes coming upon us all. The sooner we start acting on that truth the less the current economic downturn that WILL continue to get worse will affect us. Read more in the post I featured in CommentLuv in this reply.
.-= growmap´s featured blog ..Support Small Businesses =-.
I love what Dr. Otto has said here. I never thought of it this way. However he is so right. Mullenweg and Shiel are doing exactly what I am reading happened in the early days of the Nazis. And, just like the early days of the Nazis, lots of people are backing them, until, of course they themselves become victims of this spam hysteria. I have copied Dr. Otto’s comment below. It needs to be seriously considered and re-considered:
Here it is again:
“If Akismet wishes to ban an ethnic minority or a woman owned business, or a handicapped nonprofit or a Muslim or a Christian or a Jew or a Liberal or a Conservative or any other “unpleasant” WordPress commenter, they can do that, and they can do it anonymously in the same way the Gestapo and the KKK operated during their worst days.
Thanks be to God that Alex Shiel and Matt Mullenweg, carrying on in the worst traditions of the Saxon personality,do not have the power that those organizations once had. Or is Akismet the reincarnation of such evil? Since the net is our new relationship builder, I believe, once again, we very much need to scrutinize the attitudes of men like Shiel and Mullenweg. For some reason, these sorts of personalities continue to arise in specific cultures if not strictly controlled. And, unfortunately, somehow this type of personality commits the worst possible social damage while claiming to be doing what the “people” want.
The Europeans, especially the Germans, have taken remarkable measures to prevent these sorts of aggressive personalities from harming others. In the US, evidently we haven’t as yet broadened our consciousness sufficiently to detect and control men such as these.
Akismet will take a few votes and then use that as justification for a universal ban. (And, when banned, we have had any number of Akismet users say that ToysPeriod must be guilty of something. Surely Shiel and Mullenweg have a reason for their actions. Yes, they do. They do it because they have access to power.)
Alex can and will deny what Akismet does, and he will continue to deny what he is personally responsible for, that is not taking steps to remedy injustices.
I’ve seen the correspondence from Alex admitting to the Akismet policies regarding deletion, spam designation, and banning.
In effect, not to put too fine a point on it, Alex is either not telling the truth or he is lying.
Im in shock
.-= creative entrepreneur´s featured blog ..How to Make Money on the Internet? =-.
I’m shocked at the revelation. How could they???
Twitter: GrowMap
June 10, 2010 at 9:58 am
Twitter: @GrowMap
Well Peter,
This is a complicated situation and there is no obvious simply resolution to it. That said, Akismet should have been far more clear on what that Akismet configuration check box did.
.-= growmap´s featured blog ..Freelancers: How to Get More Freelance Work =-.
As a fellow Saxon, I would like to address what Alex Shiel said above.
On several occasions, we have asked Alex Shiel and Matt Mullenweg, both, to rectify the Akismet abuse of our scholarship providers, especially ToysPeriod.com.
Approximately one year ago, Alex did that once, and, like a bolt, the thousand of so WordPress sites that were deleting or sending to spam comments with their url cleared.
Since then, ToysPeriod, which is one of the highest quality sights on the net, with several Google starred articles just this past week alone, has been virtually banned from WordPress commenting via Akismet.
Alex was SEEMINGLY as honest with our Provost, Dr. Voisin, as he is ever going to be.
He told her categorically that, yes, Akismet was banning ToysPeriod, but that Akismet was just doing what its users wanted. Then on another occasion, Alex did what he is doing here, that is, telling the world that what he said previously was not so. Which is it?
There isn’t any way in the world ToysPeriod deserves such treatment.
Never has a comment with their url attached been of spam quality.
So, on the one hand, Alex Shiel denies that Akismet is to blame, and in the next breath, he says that Akismet just does what its users want.
If Akismet wishes to ban an ethnic minority or a woman owned business, or a handicapped nonprofit or a Muslim or a Christian or a Jew or a Liberal or a Conservative or any other “unpleasant” WordPress commenter, the users can do that, and they can do it anonymously in the same way the Gestapo and the KKK operated during their worst days.
Thanks be to God that Alex Shiel and Matt Mullenweg, carrying on in the worst traditions of the Saxon personality,do not have the power that those organizations once had. Or is Akismet the reincarnation of such evil? Since the net is our new relationship builder, I believe, once again, we very much need to scrutinize the attitudes of men like Shiel and Mullenweg. For some reason, these sorts of personalities continue to arise in specific cultures if not strictly controlled. And, unfortunately, somehow this type of personality commits the worst possible social damage while claiming to be doing what the “people” want.
The Europeans, especially the Germans, have taken remarkable measures to prevent these sorts of aggressive personalities from harming others. In the US, evidently we haven’t as yet broadened our consciousness sufficiently to detect and control men such as these.
Akismet will take a few votes and then use that as justification for a universal ban. (And, when banned, we have had any number of Akismet users say that ToysPeriod must be guilty of something. Surely Shiel and Mullenweg have a reason for their actions. Yes, they do. They do it because they have access to power.)
Alex can and will deny what Akismet does, and he will continue to deny what he is personally responsible for, that is not taking steps to remedy injustices.
I’ve seen the correspondence from Alex admitting to the Akismet policies regarding deletion, spam designation, and banning.
In effect, not to put too fine a point on it, Alex is either not telling the truth or he is lying.
Hate to call another man dishonest. However, in this case, the man doesn’t seem to have any shame or integrity at all.
I have personally written to him this week to ask once again that ToysPeriod be cleared. And, of course, the third response other than blaming Akismet users for their poor judgment or denying that Akismet does anything at all, was what I received from Alex, and that is no response at all.
The unfortunate part of all this is, many Akismet users will probably believe this man, and, to that extent, the damage to relationships throughout the WordPress world will continue.
Dr. Otto, A Saxon who has learned to control himself
[NOTE FROM GROWMAP: This comment went directly into spam; I rescued it from there.]
Twitter: GrowMap
June 9, 2010 at 9:54 pm
Twitter: @GrowMap
Fortunately for the readers here, unlike many other people I do not take how people SAY their systems work as the truth – I test them to find out how they actually do work.
Alex has admitted that the white pages are caused by Akismet and it is obvious that many bloggers are allowing comments to be instantly deleted by them because they do not understand the Automatically discard spam comments on posts older than a month option.
When bloggers realize how many of them are already flagged as spammers (and I am already compiling a list) they will be shocked – and being flagged a spammer yourself will be a strong motivation for bloggers to recognize this issue and do whatever we need to do to make our blogs once again friendly for our readers and commentators.
.-= growmap´s featured blog ..Support Small Businesses =-.
In response to Lane:
I suppose what I am saying is that “deletion” has never been my primary concern, although a very bad thing.
My principal problem with Akismet was its spam designation problem.
If I am understanding Gail’s point, she is saying that if we use the spam marking feature of the Akismet software, and allow that feature to be reported back to Akismet, they in turn will send a message back to the user’s system to delete future comments for that user.
If that’s not what Gail meant, what I mean is that I wasn’t even aware of the deletion problem.
I was aware of two problems:
1) White paging. From my perspective this didn’t mean a deletion but a blocking which meant that the comment was never allow in in the first place.
And,
2) My main problem was Akismet’s policy regarding sending folks to spam.
80% of our problem with Akismet did not result in the deletion of comments but rather the relegating comments to the spam folder that definitely didn’t belong there. Even if the blogger then rescued the comment, the damage had been done to a new relationship. People generally don’t take it well, when “cheap comments” are accepted and posted with a pending moderator sign, but their’s disappear into oblivion.
So, Lane, if you are suggesting that we disable the delete function in the Akismet software, and just keep the spam function active, that’s not going to solve my MAIN problem with Akismet.
Again, I think that’s what Gail said, but not being a techy, I’m not completely sure.
Lara
Twitter: GrowMap
June 9, 2010 at 9:39 pm
Twitter: @GrowMap
Hi Lara,
Based on what many have observed and what Alex from Akismet specifically stated (in the comment at that link), the white page indicates that a comment was immediately deleted because the commentator has been flagged as a spammer and the blog where it was left has checked the box that says “Automatically discard spam comments on posts older than a month.” as I explain as I explain in this comment also found in this post.
Akismet clearly does not recognize the difference between the original original definition of spam and the erroneous flagging of quality comments as spam.
If bloggers were only affecting the ability of commentators to leave comments in their own blogs instead of globally the way Akismet works might be OK.
That only a few instances of someone who does not understand the implications of marking something as spam can send any commentator into limbo forever across the entire WordPress blogosphere is simply not acceptable.
Note that we do not know if one person who marks you as a spammer three times might be enough or it takes three different people to flag you as a spammer to get you banned – if indeed three is even the criteria.
On top of that we have no way of knowing what words are automatically deleting our real comments. It makes no sense that words that many would obviously find profane and pharmaceutical related spam gets through but words like business, marketing and selling are forbidden.
We can never support any system that discrimates against legitimate businesses and bloggers who use the Internet for online visibility. The excuse that “our users want us to” is just that – and excuse that leads us to question Akismet’s agenda.
My question for you Lara is whether you consider not having comments go live immediately a big disadvantage. We would greatly prefer that real comments be instantly visible but we may be forced to pre-moderate if we can not find another solution as the huge number of objectionable comments that come in every day can not be allowed to go live.
.-= growmap´s featured blog ..Word of Mouth Marketing =-.
Twitter: nannygoats
June 9, 2010 at 5:38 pm
Twitter: @nannygoats
Is this from their latest update? I’m hesitant to use Akismet and after reading this, even more so. I don’t get a bazillion spammers commenting on my blog, so I can manage it manually at this point.
.-= Margaret (Nanny Goats)´s featured blog ..Do You Call It Soda or Pop? =-.
Twitter: GrowMap
June 9, 2010 at 8:23 pm
Twitter: @GrowMap
Hi Margaret,
The only time I have ever seen my own comments disappear in my own blogs is since we went to the latest version in that blog; however, it appears that this is how Akismet has worked for some time.
We bloggers who get 100+ spam comments every day have some serious decisions to make regarding how to manage spam and not block comments from real people. We are discussing what to do next now that we know what is going on.
If Akismet is interested we will provide feedback on how it could work better. If not we will have to find another solution. If you don’t need it I definitely wouldn’t install it.
I definitely did not find what I expected when I visited your blog.
I was expecting a goat dairy not a humor blog. If you read the post I’ve featured in CommentLuv in this reply and would like me to edit your anchor text let me know.
.-= growmap´s featured blog ..DoFollow CommentLuv KeywordLuv Community =-.
The term “spam” that Lane mentions is a term like liberal, conservative,or racist. It is so cliche that labeling anything spam can get dicey.
Obviously, anything machine generated would be spam, and originally that was primarily what was thought of as spam.
Now, political views, religious positions, opinions offering an alternative to a blogger’s point of view, and hundreds of other things generated personally and with heartfelt intellectual intent are considered spam by many folks.
As a result, the whole purpose of the net is being undermined.
The internet was designed to share points of view, especially, at first, scientific points of view. There was never a thought that just having a different point of view would become spam, because it was the INTENT of the internet to gather different points of view.
So, when we start using the term spam, and especially when we have a third party making decisions regarding what spam is, we are opening ourselves up to tremendous abuses, as Akismet has so beautifully demonstrated.
The same thinking that excluded so many for so long within organizations such as the KKK included the very methods used by Akismet and some individuals to filter so called spam.
It is one thing if an individual blogger only wants to hear opinions that support his or her point of view. On an individual basis, sad as that might be, OK, sure, block away anything that might expand an individual’s horizon.
However, to grant the authority to an irresponsible outfit like Akismet, even if we only take on THEIR view of what spam is and eliminate outright deletion of content, is a major assault on the mission of the internet, is an assault on just plain civility.
Unless one actually wants to be rude to innocent commenters, allowing Akismet to handle judgments relative to what is spam is is in my view contrary to everything that plugins such as CommentLuv and the Do follow movement are all about.
I do hope that folks like Lane understand the power that “just allowing Akismet to decide what spam is” wields.
All one needs is to run afoul of two or three users of Akismet, and it’s all over.
Participation in the Akismet protected user community swiftly is denied that individual or business. Akismet with its spam policies currently has the power to send anyone arbitrarily to spam outer darkness without recourse.
Lara
Twitter: websitewiz
June 9, 2010 at 6:33 am
Twitter: @websitewiz
Lara, I see I failed to communicate in my previous comment and would like to clear some things up. First, I agree with everything you said in this comment. Indeed, I put “spam” in quotes because of the highly variable definition it now occupies.
Another distinction I failed to make is between Akismet as a group of people and Akismet the software. Although Akismet-the-people are defining “spam” for Akismet-the-plugin, it seems that we could control what happens to so-called spam by editing the akismet.php code. Around line 860 I saw a routine that looks like it deletes some comments, and I would think that could be changed to merely mark it as “spam.”
Twitter: GrowMap
June 9, 2010 at 4:53 pm
Twitter: @GrowMap
Officially, Lane, Akismet deletes comments when a blogger selects a specific check box which probably calls in that code.
Akismet has run into the issue the Founding Fathers of the United States ran into – that the masses do not have the knowledge and wisdom to make high quality decisions.
Every collaborator I work with is very careful to only send what we collectively see as real spam: bot or manually generated generic unrelated comments intended only to gain links.
If the comment is not spam but they find the content or link objectionable they either edit it, unlink it, or delete it. They DO NOT mark it as spam.
The problem is they are wiser than the average blogger who happily marks anything they don’t like as spam not realizing that they are banning that commentator globally from blogs using Akismet.
.-= growmap´s featured blog ..Word of Mouth Marketing =-.
Twitter: websitewiz
June 8, 2010 at 6:42 pm
Twitter: @websitewiz
Something really surprises me by the fact I haven’t seen it mentioned here. Maybe there’s a very good reason.
What I’m talking about is the possibility of editing akismet.php to eliminate the problem. I haven’t studied the code, and I’m not a PHP programmer, but it seems likely to me that somewhere in the file there are two tests for spam. One test puts the spam in the spam folder, and the other test deletes the comment. I would think it would be possible to edit the second test so that it also puts “spam” in the spam folder.
Twitter: GrowMap
June 9, 2010 at 4:25 pm
Twitter: @GrowMap
Hi Lane,
I’m not sure that the code in each blog would manage that. I would think that Akismet does it on their end but I do not know how it works and I am not a programmer.
.-= growmap´s featured blog ..Best Product Feed Solution for Yahoo Stores =-.
I find Klaus’ comment as follows interesting. Klaus says,
“As I said, it’s not censorship. It’s spam filtering.
It’s your own decision if you want to ‘outsource’ your spam filtering to Akismet or not.”
You know, Klaus is correct. It IS a choice. However, why would anyone who obviously has a choice from only a limited array of reasons for setting up a blog make the choice to use an Akismet.
The choices are:
-Personal pleasure. Socializing. Relaxing with others
-Advancing a business.
-Changing society by winning people over to your point of view
-Discussing with others a point of interest or passion
-A combination of the above.
Reviewing the reasons for blogging:
If one is on the net for socializing purposes, it doesn’t start things off very well if a new commenter is trashed or blocked totally by Akismet.
If one is on the net to advance a business, why would one make a choice like Akismet that has been demonstrated to lose 5% to 10% of business profits off the top minimum.
If one is blogging to change society, why would someone make a choice to start off by insulting the very society that one is attempting to change. By installing a filter like Akismet, an individual would actually be working for the opposite point of view, especially if the opposite point of view is represented by someone who has learned the basic rules of courtesy.
If one is blogging to discuss a passion, Bridge, Hang-gliding, Coins, etc, why would one make a choice like using Akismet. The visitor trashed may be just the fellow who has that one coin at a reasonable price you’ve always wanted.
So, when Klaus says it’s a choice, I agree. A very bad choice, an irrational choice, but a choice nonetheless.
I wish somewhere there were a list of the Klauses of the world. That way, I won’t bother them, and they won’t bother me. They can be as rude to each other as they wish.
The only reason Klaus is still using the freedom of choice argument I suspect is that he himself has not been made to suffer by Akismet. Were that to happen, I have every faith that Klaus would be first in line with a bat seeking to wreak havoc upon Akismet.
Dr. Otto
Twitter: GrowMap
June 8, 2010 at 6:16 pm
Twitter: @GrowMap
Thank you for adding your thoughts, Otto. Bloggers honestly have no idea how serious this issue is. Even I did not thoroughly understand why Ann felt my approving comments manually that ended up in spam was such a serious problem.
Now that I know what is in this post and we collectively see how seriously Akismet is “filtering” (I still say “censoring”) the comments of so many it simply must be replaced.
The reason we have been reluctant to get rid of Akismet is that is does keep objectionable content from appearing in blogs that choose not to pre-moderate. Some of us get hundreds of spam comments per day and can not allow them to automatically appear as they are profane and contain content unsuitable for mixed company.
We dislike going to full moderation because it makes it so much harder for commentators to know if their comment will ever appear. Pre-moderating also greatly reducing the willingness of others to comment and then share our content across Social Media sites. Sharing blog posts after you comment in them can greatly increase traffic to blogs as I explain in that post.
I keep a running list of posts to check to see if my comments went live and share them when they do but I am very busy and that means they might not be shared in a timely manner – and many blog posts are of a time sensitive nature or have a peak time of interest to others.
We are brainstorming replacements for using Akismet. The only reason I have not disabled it already here is that we are still running tests and I want to be able to see whose comments Akismet things are spam and whose it doesn’t.
When I say “we” I refer to many very well-kn0wn bloggers who share what we learn with each other and collaborate on many subjects including best practices and what plugins to use and recommend.
While we can not reach all bloggers, we do have influence with many and will do what we can to spread the word about the negative affects of using Akismet and what the best alternatives are.
.-= growmap´s featured blog ..Word of Mouth Marketing =-.
Twitter: TechPatio
June 9, 2010 at 2:49 am
Twitter: @TechPatio
Funny that the first guy to say something like this (and kinda get personal on the matter):
“I wish somewhere there were a list of the Klauses of the world. That way, I won’t bother them, and they won’t bother me. They can be as rude to each other as they wish. ”
… is actually from Linda Christas college – same as Dr. Ann. This is in line with what other bloggers have told me about comments from that place!
Also this is a topic I don’t think we could ever agree on. I’ll continue to use Akismet on my blog, at least until I personally experience these “never see comments” myself and/or a better plugin comes along.
.-= Klaus @ TechPatio´s featured blog ..Apple Showing Off HTML5 =-.
Twitter: GrowMap
June 9, 2010 at 4:23 pm
Twitter: @GrowMap
The reason that two people from Linda Christas college are interested in this subject is that it is seriously impacting a project their graduate students are involved in.
They were the first to make me aware of the serious issues they were seeing because they have been tracking whether their comments ever appear or not. I was not that organized about it – I leave comments, keep the URLs to maybe check later if I got around to it – and did not concern myself with all the comments that never appeared.
You do realize that anyone using Akismet who doesn’t like you can get you flagged as a spammer and then your ability to comment and build links back to your site will be seriously compromised?
If all of YOUR comments start getting deleted and the bloggers whose blogs you like to comment in never check their spam folders then you will care more about this issue.
Twitter: TechPatio
June 9, 2010 at 4:25 pm
Twitter: @TechPatio
“You do realize that anyone using Akismet who doesn’t like you can get you flagged as a spammer and then your ability to comment and build links back to your site will be seriously compromised? ”
Well – yes, but it really depends on your view. Are you commenting because you have something to say – or just to get the link back? If you’re commenting because you have something to so, who cares about building links. Anyway. I know what you mean, don’t worry
What I’m curious about though, is what kind of project their graduate students are involved in, that just so happens that they must comment on blogs and link their comment back to toysperiod.com?
.-= Klaus @ TechPatio´s featured blog ..Apple Showing Off HTML5 =-.
Twitter: GrowMap
June 17, 2010 at 8:11 pm
Twitter: @GrowMap
Hi Klaus,
For myself link or no it bothers me that I invest my precious time in typing comments that disappear. If the blogger doesn’t want to approve them that is their choice and a risk I am willing to take. Having Akismet decide that I can not comment anywhere is very different.
The students at Linda Christas are learning real world skills. Toysperiod provides scholarship funds so that many who could not afford more education can. The students are not required to leave comments or link back to ToysPeriod but they choose to in appreciation.
I believe teaching students how to assist quality businesses to STAY in business – especially now with the economy the way it is – is a very good idea and I applaud them for it.
All of us have got to get clear on what is important in life. Links are important to being found on the Internet. I for one want to be able to find what I want to find and I don’t want Google or Akismet or Yahoo or Bing or anyone else to decide what information I can read or what businesses I can patronize.
We collectively destroyed our economy through selfishness and greed. The solution is to support small local and online businesses. It is sad that so few Americans have any concept of the importance of independence, business ownership and community.
I know that sounds harsh but it is 100% true. Every dime spent in a multi-national Corporate store is money that could have made a difference for a neighborhood business and improved our economy.
I hope anyone reading this will consider reading that post and the one I’ll put in CommentLuv so they get a better understanding of how they as one individual can improve the world for themselves, their neighbors, their communities and everyone else.
.-= growmap´s featured blog ..Word of Mouth Marketing =-.
Twitter: laforge129
June 8, 2010 at 4:52 pm
Twitter: @laforge129
I think I have figured it out. This is a test post because Akismet has deleted my other two posts. I talked about Bots and how they are trying to slow or break bot nets by creating a white screen. I won’t go into detail because I am unsure if this will even post!!
.-= techlinkblog´s featured blog ..Summer is the busy time for parents!! =-.
Twitter: GrowMap
June 8, 2010 at 5:54 pm
Twitter: @GrowMap
I just rescued two of your comments from SPAM but this comment made it live by itself. Are you saying that you used the same name (techlinkblog) and URL in ALL the comments but the other two got blocked because of the words in the comment itself?
I do not have any words blacklisted in this blog unless they are profanity and I don’t think I even have any of those blocked. I do not use any other plugins like WPSpamFree which also blacklisted words automatically.
This makes the issue even worse. Even if you test to make sure your name and URL aren’t blocked you would have to test every single comment too – if Akismet decides to give us back the place to test. I had no idea how serious this was until now.
.-= growmap´s featured blog ..Twitter Tools: Managing Multiple Twitter Accounts =-.
Twitter: laforge129
June 8, 2010 at 5:58 pm
Twitter: @laforge129
@Growmap
That is correct, I don’t cuss when I talk so I know my comments were cussing or should of been filtered. I would like you to email me directly I would like to talk to you about some things.
Paul Sylvester
techlinkblog@gmail.com
.-= techlinkblog´s featured blog ..I have disabled Disqus and enabled CommentLuv!! =-.
Twitter: GrowMap
June 8, 2010 at 6:50 pm
Twitter: @GrowMap
Hi Paul,
I’m sending you an email now. You can also find that information on the contact page here or use the contact form should you ever not have my email address handy.
.-= growmap´s featured blog ..Word of Mouth Marketing =-.
Twitter: DonnaFontenot
June 8, 2010 at 4:52 pm
Twitter: @DonnaFontenot
Gail, if Dennis Yu says that your comments end up in his spam folder, doesn’t that mean that your comments AREN’T getting deleted? Ending up in the spam folder is what I’d expect to have happen for comments that Akismet thinks is spam.
Twitter: GrowMap
June 8, 2010 at 5:38 pm
Twitter: @GrowMap
Hi Donna,
I’m still answering your other comment. Yes, it means that whatever names and URLs I use when I comment in Dennis’ blog have been reported as SPAM to Akismet.
In his blog it ends up in the spam folder and in blogs where that box is checked my comments are immediately deleted.
.-= growmap´s featured blog ..Freelancers: How to Get More Freelance Work =-.
Akismet has told me straight out that they do what their users want them to do.
It is a sort of voting system. I don’t know if it is automatic or not.
But, after one or two users decide they don’t like what someone has to say, things like, I voted for Obama. Or I am a Jew. Or I think females should own businesses, once three users ” off their meds” somewhere have labeled a comment as spam, Akismet just bans that party everywhere.
One party I know of contacted Akismet and was evidently very persuasive because one moment he was banned everywhere, and the next he was clear everywhere on Akismet “protected” sites. I guess I don’t have the persuasive power this guy has. I haven’t been able to get my site “unbanned,” and believe me I’ve tried.
So, the question is not if they are doing what they are doing. The question is what can we do about it seeing as how everything they do is anonymous from their side of things.
I frankly don’t know how they get anyone to buy into the system.
Other systems may be annoying to users, but nothing is as annoying as a comment being hung by the neck until dead.
Or just not being treated properly as a good hearted commenter. To throw someone into a spam folder just because they belong to the same organization as someone else who voted for Obama, well, that’s just wrong.
Maybe the same folks who run Akismet are the same folks who run the voting machines in Chicago and Florida.
Leone
Twitter: GrowMap
June 8, 2010 at 5:35 pm
Twitter: @GrowMap
Hi Leone,
The reason Akismet is in such widespread use is that it is supplied by the company behind WordPress and WordPress really is the best blogging platform.
Now that we know what we know about Akismet though we need to make a change there. What worries me most is that we may have to replace WordPress some day. That would be a real drag far worse than dealing with spam comments.
What we all need to realize is that if you leave say three comments over time in one blog and they mark them all spam it only takes ONE PERSON who doesn’t like you to get you banned in millions of blogs. That just won’t do. Maybe they are the same folks.
Which of the millions of bloggers that use Akismet do they think told them we wanted them to delete real comments in a way that most will never figure out?
.-= growmap´s featured blog ..Freelancers: How to Get More Freelance Work =-.
Twitter: laforge129
June 8, 2010 at 3:27 pm
Twitter: @laforge129
arggg, Did Akismet do that to me now??
I can think of only one thing, when it comes to the blank screen. That they are trying to break or slow down BOT and if that is true then they also are intentionally deleting comments without people knowing.
Although this is just theory, it is logical that they want to prevent bots from finding other blogs. Bots like to go from blog to blog by getting the url from other blogs, so that would slow them down or break the bot because of the white screen. Although if I was a bot writer, I would also include a timeout feature in the bot so it would most likely just slow them down to a point!!
[NOTE FROM GROWMAP: This comment went directly into SPAM and I approved it from there. I see this is a duplicate of another comment you tried to get through.]
.-= techlinkblog´s featured blog ..I have disabled Disqus and enabled CommentLuv!! =-.
Twitter: websitewiz
June 8, 2010 at 3:20 pm
Twitter: @websitewiz
I’m feeling pretty stupid right now. I thought the checkbox meant this: Delete all spam comments after they’ve been in the spam folder for a month! Arrrrgh!
Like you, I like Duck Duck Go for searching, but I find myself often going to Google for the capability to limit the searches to a particular time period. Without that, I get a lot of old and useless results.
Yes, there are big differences in captchas. I use the Simple Captcha plugin, which is easy for users to solve… and it’s probably easy for spammers. I tried to sign up for one service, and I was never able to figure out the captcha myself! I like the captcha.net version, mainly because you can quickly get a new one if the current one is confusing.
.-= Lane Lester@website builder´s featured blog ..Wordpress Video Tutorials =-.
Twitter: GrowMap
June 8, 2010 at 4:17 pm
Twitter: @GrowMap
Don’t feel bad, Lane. You’re in good company. Kristi and I both thought it read “spam COMMENTS older than a month” when it reads “spam comments on POSTS older than a month” – BIG DIFFERENCE! Only Derek caught the true meaning.
I use alternatives whenever I can but I still do use major sites for specific purposes. We need to get DuckDuckGo and other search engines to add more capabilities.
The reason I use Zuula Blog Search is because it prioritizes posts by both recency and relevancy, making it easy to find the most recent blog posts on any topic.
.-= growmap´s featured blog ..Affiliate Tips Tuesday: How to Deep Link ShareASale =-.
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