UPDATE: the new GASP Anti-Spam WordPress plugin has been released and is available in the WordPress Plugin Repository.
THIS is the ALTERNATIVE TO AKISMET that provides the SOLUTION to being Flagged as a Spammer! Spread it throughout the blogosphere and your comments will work again.
Are YOUR Comments Banned by Akismet? Image credit Hurricane Softwares
URGENT: Please DO NOT leave comments in unrelated blog posts in this and especially in OTHER blogs about the Akismet issue.
Leaving comments in the blogs of those who have commented that they flag non-spam as spam solves nothing and brings you down to their level.
If you wish to respond to them please do it IN THIS POST or on your own blog.
If you identify yourself in your comments it reflects badly on you and there is a very real possibility that they will flag you as a spammer!
Leaving comments in their blogs using fake information is a waste of your time. It will only make them feel they are correct in what they are doing and they will simply delete the posts.
If they do not understand now nothing more we can say or do is likely to make any difference at all.
NEW: I have created two test pages anyone can use to test their names and URLs. See Akismet Test Pages.
UPDATE: June 7 Akismet has removed the ability to use the test page mentioned in this post to determine if your comments are being sent to either SPAM or being deleted outright by Akismet.
MESSAGE TO AKISMET: How does removing our ability to find out if our names or URLs are blocked by your plugin improve this situation? That makes this worse – not better – and makes you look guilty. You should be willing to TELL US that your plugin does indeed delete comments. If that is how you believe it SHOULD work honesty is the best policy.
If you love commenting in blogs you are in for a shock. Did you know that Akismet is censoring comments?
Yes, there are still plenty of really spammy comments showing up in our spam folder so it LOOKS like we get to moderate them.
When I have tested in the past because Dr. Ann Voisin of Linda Cristas College I always found comments from their students about Toys Period in my SPAM folder and was able to rescue them.
I owe Dr. Ann and her students an apology. They were correct.
Akismet IS censoring their comments
And mine – and probably yours too!
Yesterday and today I saw with my own eyes that comments I wrote and left in blogs I moderate were simply vanishing into thin air. I waited 48 hours just to make sure they weren’t just delayed. They were not.
My very real comments went straight into the bit bucket!
In Are You Banned By Akismet For Spamming? Ashish wrote:
Akismet system relies heavily upon blog owners marking your comments/trackbacks as spam and reporting them back to Akismet as such via the WordPress plugin. This means that many innocent bloggers are “false positives” in the Akismet system due to either malicious or ignorant behavior on the part of other bloggers.
What we need to realize is that many bloggers have a VERY BROAD definition of spam and if they report you as a spammer you could be banned even if you have never left a spam comment in your life and don’t even know what a keyword is!
Here are some unusual definitions of spam that I have come across:
- Any comment that has a business in the URL field.
- Any comment left by anyone the blogger doesn’t recognize.
- Comments that include a link not related to their blog’s niche.
- Any comment that has keywords in the name field EVEN IN BLOGS THAT HAVE KEYWORDLUV installed.
- Any comment they don’t like.
- Any comment from a commentator they don’t like.
- Any trackback = spam to some bloggers because so many of them are from scraped or MFA (made for AdSense sites) – even high quality incoming links from major sites and blogs!
I hope any blogger reading this will reconsider what they are labeling spam. These all fit my definition of spam which I hope you’ll adopt. These really ARE SPAM:
- Comments that have nothing to do with your post including generic “one size fits all” comments.
- Comments that are lists of words or links to junk sites of any kind.
- Objectionable or profane comments and comments that link to adult or illegal sites.
- Any comment that is an advertisement for a business or another site even if it IS related to your blog.
- Copied text or comment spam.
- Comments that are obviously intended only as a way to slide in a link and mention of another site.
- Ridiculous suggestions to “keep posting”, requests for help subscribing, over-the-top flattery, insults (do they really think THAT would work?), “I just found you in a search engine” and short comments that add nothing to the conversation like “great post” or +1 or me too.
I want to encourage bloggers and especially CommentLuv bloggers to welcome QUALITY comments from business owners, entrepreneurs and bloggers. Please read my tips in that post on best practices for both bloggers and commentators.
UPDATE: Akismet has removed the ability to use that page to test to see if your comments are being sent to either SPAM or being deleted outright by Akismet.
I discussed this issue today Andy Bailey from CommentLuv and he sent me this:
Akismet Test link. By submitting a comment there you can determine whether it is being automatically deleted by Akismet or not.
This is NOT as simple as most might think. You might be ok when you enter your name one way but not another. Your comments might go through if you enter your URL some ways and not others. If you ever comment in KeywordLuv blogs any comment with @ one keyword might work while another with @ something else won’t.
Even if you test every combination you ever use in the name and URL fields Akismet might cause your comment to disappear based on any word in the comment itself.
Unless you test every comment you ever leave you will never really know if the blogger ever sees it until it appears live (or likely doesn’t)!
The bottom line for me is that this is totally unacceptable. I would rather have to pre-moderate every comment than have real commentators censored in a way that I never even see their comments.
Unless we start Tweeting to each other every time we leave a comment or send an email or use the contact form to ensure the blogger knows to look for our comments, an ever increasing number of comments will simply vanish.
We have these choices:
- Ask Akismet to clarify precisely how their plugin works and consider modifying this behavior.
- If Akismet will not change how their plugin works for everyone, at least let us opt out of this behavior so that we see every comment to moderate it.
- I was going to say that if they will not let us opt out they should at least NOTIFY US every time any information we use when commenting is banned but I can already predict they would not be willing to do that because then real spammers will simply change what they use.
- Find an alternative spam management plugin.
- Disable Akismet and switch to pre-moderating comments BEFORE they appear. If we just disable it our blogs will be flooded with objectionable real spam and we can not have that.
I call on all bloggers to make your feelings about this known to Akismet. You can try tweeting to them but they are not highly interactive on Twitter. A better way would be to use their contact form. Be specific about what you would like them to do.
If you know of an alternative plugin please let me know.
I am already not a big fan of WP-SpamFree because they block many words automatically including business and marketing and in many blogs if you trigger their spam filter you lose your comment. (In others you don’t and I do not know why. Perhaps someone will share that with us.)
If I do not hear back from Akismet and do not find an alternative I will disable Akismet and set this and all my blogs to pre-moderate all comments.
I hate to do that for two reasons:
- It makes it more difficult for commentators to use my Comment Share strategy. In blogs where comments are moderated I recommend saving the links where you leave comments and coming back later to see if they are visible. I use Tomboy Notes for that but others use spreadsheets.
- I dread finding out how many more comments are disappearing into the Akismet ether. I already review 150+ spam comments daily and rescue several real comments each time I check them.
Have any other recommendations? Please leave a comment. Not sure this applies to you? I urge you to go check to see if you are banned by Akismet. Do other bloggers a favor and leave a comment in this post either way so we can get an idea how many are being affected.
Here are the two comments I have left in the Akismet test blog post in case anyone reading this would like more details:
I have proven to my satisfaction that Akismet is deleting valid comments we as bloggers never see. If you get taken to a blank white page when you comment that comment probably got deleted.
If you sometimes use your full name and other times your first name one can be blocked and not the other. The same is true if you use your first name and your blog name as I often do. In non-KeywordLuv blogs I often put Gail from GrowMap so the blogger will recognize me as I am best known across the Internet as GrowMap but many prefer a first name.
If you comment in KeywordLuv enabled blogs you might have name @ keywords so you might be blocked using some keywords but not others. It is also possible that even if you come here and verify that the name, email and website you intend to use when commenting is ok but some word in your comment causes it to be blocked.
Akismet might treat http://YourDomain.com differently than http://www.YourDomain.com differently than http://YourDomain.com/ and individual PAGES on your site that you have left in the Website field might be blocked.
If you are going to be commenting you almost have to come here and test your entire comment first if you really want it to show up OR you could leave the comment and if it doesn’t show up immediately THEN come here and test.
I am not willing to let Akismet delete comments I never see. That is dangerous and censorship and it just won’t do. Why can obvious spam end up in my spam section but not all the real comments? Why are THEY singled out?
Either Akismet needs to change this or at least let us opt out of it OR we need an alternative that does not censor our commentators OR we will have to go to pre-moderation and moderate every comment.
Testing to see if GrowMap @ Support Small Businesses is blocked. It is. Then I tested to see if having that post in the Website was blocked. It is. Now I’m testing just using Gail and my home page works and have the link in the body of the comment. That doesn’t work either.
Any comment that includes a link to the post on my site about the importance of supporting small businesses is automatically censored by the Akismet plugin.
In case anyone wonders why I want bloggers to support small businesses it is because they are the solution to the economic crisis in the U.S. and elsewhere.Bloggers can choose to be a big part of the solution or they can delete (or let Akismet censor) quality comments from small local and online businesses and let our economies collapse because we are too blind to see where we are headed. You can find a link to that post on my best-of-growmap page and in the comment replies on most posts.
If you want to see what the Akismet test page looked like it is currently still in cache in the search engine and I will add before and after screen captures below:
Screen capture of what was on the page when I wrote this post:
What was at that URL when I tested and wrote this post - click to see Cache version while it works
Date and Time of Cache Version shown in the screen capture above
Screen capture of my comment live on that past when I wrote this post: (Only what would fit on one screen is shown below. The full comment is shown above.)
Cache version screen capture of my Comment Live on the Akismet test page
Screen capture of what is on that page since this post was published (click image to go there):
After this post went live the ability to test to see what Akismet blocks was removed; click image to go to that page now.
I can now see part of the two comments I left last night in Cache showing “Your comment is awaiting moderation“. Only one of them appears in the cache version for some reason.
Here is what I see when I go to that page now:
Comments that were live on that site last night are now "awaiting moderation".
AKISMET COMPLAINTS:
- NEW: Akismet Huge CrowdSourcing Fail – What Akismet is doing now is what Google search is planning to do later! CHANGE SEARCH ENGINES NOW- and encourage everyone you know and your readers and followers to do the same!
AKISMET ALTERNATIVE:
- See our complete anti-spam process
{ 366 comments… read them below or add one }
Next Comments →
Twitter: laforge129
June 8, 2010 at 3:19 pm
Twitter: @laforge129
The Only problem with this is figuring out if it is a true white screen or one that Akismet puts up to detour bots. Since most bots go from blog to blog by getting links from other such links, this would indicate that Akismet is truly trying to break the cycle for bots. This would be the only reason why they would intentionally do it and not tell anyone. Also this would indicate that Akismet knows far more than they are letting on. If they are doing the blank pages intentionally then they are also automatically deleting posts intentionally!!
Although that may or may not be true, I am however drawn to the conclusion that is the only logical process to technically “BREAK A BOT”. Although it wouldn’t stop them from long, I am sure the programmers have thought of this and instituted a time out feature, so it would more likely slow them down.
[NOTE FROM GROWMAP: This comment also went directly into SPAM and I approved it from there.]
Twitter: GrowMap
June 8, 2010 at 6:41 pm
Twitter: @GrowMap
I like the way you think, Paul. So how did your test go? Did you see the white pages when your comments went directly to spam here or did you see something else?
Our suspicion is that you only get the white page when your comment is immediately deleted and that is not SUPPOSED to happen in blogs that don’t opt in to that featured and I do not.
.-= growmap´s featured blog ..Follow Friday: XLNT New Social Networking Blog =-.
Twitter: GrowMap
June 8, 2010 at 4:08 pm
Twitter: @GrowMap
In a comment from Dennis Yu which you can jump directly to in my post about Using CommentLuv he wrote what I have pasted below:
Hi Gail,
For some reason, your comments end up in my spam folder– so I actually go through a ton of spams since I know you often comment, and that your posts are so insightful, it’s worth digging through a heap of garbage to find them! I am a big, big supporter of small business and have always had a heart for the underdog. That’s why I started BlitzLocal.com and have persisted, even though that side of our business continues to lose money (although we hope this will change by the end of the year).
Dennis writes about Internet Marketing for Small Businesses and Large in his blog. That comment proves more of the names and URLs I use are already flagged as SPAM.
If Dennis did not know that I would be commenting he would not know to look for my comments. We have three choices:
1) Stop using Akismet
2) Start notifying each other using alternate methods every time we comment
3) Test the names and URLs in our own blogs BEFORE we comment elsewhere.
Let’s discuss this among ourselves and our collaborators and decide what sounds best. We need to research alternative plugins too.
.-= growmap´s featured blog ..Support Small Businesses =-.
Twitter: DonnaFontenot
June 8, 2010 at 3:06 pm
Twitter: @DonnaFontenot
Every time I think about this (I’ve read your post numerous times over the last couple of days), I keep coming back to the thought that it’s more likely a bug. Perhaps it’s related to a list of spammers, but I think something isn’t being processed correctly once the system gets a positive hit. That blank white screen is almost never something a programmer would actually code, but it’s very very often a sign of a bug. So, I’m thinking that in certain circumstances, when someone comments who has been placed on some spam list at Akismet, something gets hung in the process and the routine never finishes what it was about to do, which would account for a blank white screen most likely. Obviously, I may be wrong, but that blank white screen is a like a big red flag that shouts bug to me.
Twitter: GrowMap
June 8, 2010 at 6:39 pm
Twitter: @GrowMap
Hi Donna,
What I saw (a comment disappearing from a blog that does use Akismet but does not have the option to delete “spam” comments automatically checked) may be a bug, but the serious problems our using Akismet is causing is not.
One issue is that all of the bloggers I have asked thought that check box meant Akismet deleted spam comments after thirty days when what it does is delete any comment it considers spam IMMEDIATELY in those blogs that have that enabled. The blogger will never see them.
That brings us to the issue of who is a spammer. It appears that it only takes a few comments marked as spam to get a name or URL labeled as a spammer. Many of the names and URLs I use to comment with are flagged. Many of our regular readers are flagged.
In the comment just below yours Techlink blog says this might not be a “true white screen” – it might be one Akismet puts up to detour bots.
Kristi commented that it appears it only takes 1-3 comments to end up flagged as a spammer but dozens or even 100 of times marking something as “not-spam” to get it unflagged. Another commentator in this thread says Akismet told him it takes three.
Even if we could get real commentators names and URLs unflagged (and Leone commented here that he has been trying to get unflagged and can not) there is still the problem of words in a comment causing it to end up in spam or automatically deleted.
That misleading feature that automatically deletes comments is more troubling to me from my perspective because I always review my “spam” comments before I delete them but I know that other major bloggers do not do that.
I believe it was Barbara Swafford who as you already know has a popular blog on learning to blog mentioned to me or wrote somewhere that she doesn’t check for real comments in her spam unless someone contacts her because their comment didn’t show up.
Most commentators never do that so who knows how many dozens, hundreds or even thousands of great comments are being deleted every day?
Given the way Akismet works IMHO it has to go. The only question is what do we use to replace it? I’m open to suggestions. I just sent you a message through your contact form. Email me when you get it?
I noticed you didn’t use any keywords in your comment so you may want to read the post I’ve featured in CommentLuv in this reply.
.-= growmap´s featured blog ..DoFollow CommentLuv KeywordLuv Community =-.
I guess for high traffic websites, use of catcha would be desirable since this would not delete legitimate comments yet still filter spam especially from those automatic softwares & bots.
Twitter: GrowMap
June 8, 2010 at 3:42 pm
Twitter: @GrowMap
Hi Claire,
That is one alternative we’re considering. I’m seeking others and there are other spam plugins we need to research. You could greatly benefit your site by reading the post I’ll feature in CommentLuv in this reply.
.-= growmap´s featured blog ..DoFollow CommentLuv KeywordLuv Community =-.
Twitter: GrowMap
June 8, 2010 at 2:14 pm
Twitter: @GrowMap
I have received much more information from Dr. Ann via email. As is often the case with those who try to raise awareness, she has been targeted by trolls that have called her all kinds of names in an attempt to reduce her credibility.
That is a commonly used tactic for discrediting the sources of information you do not wish to be made public. I am pasting more of what she has sent me lately below.
If you believed the disinformation about her I ask you to reconsider. She IS a real person who IS connected with a real online college. Ann Voisin is Chair of the Business Department and Provost at Linda Christas College.
She is involved in a College Doctoral Thesis around using the Internet for increasing business for The Lego Group through working with sites that sell their popular Lego Building Blocks such as Toys Period.
It is through the issues their students working on that project ran into that Dr. Ann recognized the huge problems Akismet presents to businesses using quality commenting to expand their visibility. Remember that the comments themselves as well as the links are valuable to businesses.
Here are excerpts from several emails that Ann Voisin sent directly to me. Perhaps she has grown tired of being the target of smear campaigns or just prefers email to commenting given all the problems they have had getting the comments to actually appear in blogs.
Ann Voisin wrote:
“I have been around and around with Alex. [Alex replied above in the comments here. He is the public voice for Automattic, the company behind WordPress and Akismet.]
He has two basic responses:
1) You are wrong
OR
2) We are just doing what our users want
The first puts the blame on the complainer as seeing what isn’t there.
The second virtually admits that the complainer is correct. However, it’s not Akismet’s fault.
These fellows are just evil.”
Dear Gail,
It is the WAY comments going to spam and comments going to moderation are handled that makes all the difference.
With comments going to moderation, as you will see when you leave a comment on a site like ToysPeriod, there is a notice saying simply that the commenter is thanked and that the comment will be carefully considered by the moderator.
With Akismet, the comment disappears, and is treated differently when the url is subtracted.
I would break the experiences down in the following manner:
Where WordPress is not involved for an Akismet targeted person or business:
45% of the sites simply have the comment appear with links showing, no moderation required.
50% will have some form of moderator control
5% will have blocked a commenter who has visited BEFORE, and that is important. Very rarely os a person blocked on the first try.
In the WordPress community, for the same person or business targeted by Aksimet, the experiences seem to break down in the following manner:
60% of the time, the comments disappear without any notice, but removing the url will allow the person to at least leave a notice to the blog owner of what has happened. (The person has already been told YOU OR YOUR BUSINESS OR SCHOOL ARE NOT WELCOME as part and parcel of the site’s behavior. The damage has been done.)
20% of the time the person will be white paged and not be able to notify the blog owner at all.
20% of the time the comments will be either moderated or accepted outright.
So what we have is a huge difference between how it FEELS to a first time visitor to a site depending on the judgment of Akismet.
In business, it is the FEELING of welcome that is king. There are too many businesses out there that have a clear shot at communication, especially the “big brands” you mention, to add the additional disadvantage of having some very weird folks taking pot shots at the little guy through a white sheet like anonymous killing off of messages which is the Akismet signature.
It just makes any reasonable blogging effort hell for those unfairly targeted by Akismet. We have never had a p**n site actually leave a comment on our college site. Machine generated stuff, yes, but never a comment. Akismet can very easily tell the difference, but even when notified, the attacks on the innocent just escalate.
They have no mercy, and the hell of it is that WordPress business owners never seem to have taken a business 101 course. They seem to be perfectly willing to give up a percentage of their business to Akismet, and will actively defend Akismet attacking the person who notifies them of the arbitrary trashing of their comments.
Some of MY comments about Akismet can be Googled. (Never the positive ones though.) That is, people who evidently are SEO managers not only reject what I’ve told them as a TRICK, but they publicly ridicule me. They don’t get it either. In that case, the Akismet victim becomes the target of mockery.
Evidently these are very uneducated people who are claiming to be guides for other bloggers. That can only be the answer. Even a basic humanitarian approach to business will tell owners that as a business owner one doesn’t treat others that way.
However, the point is missed by I would say 90% of internet consultants who have hung out their shingle claiming to HELP small businesses prosper.
The first thing they do is recommend WordPress because of its easy use, and the plug ins, CommentLuv and Akismet. After that, the person who takes that advice becomes yet another site adding to the human and business relationship carnage. People like me who are only trying to get people to actually read messages before trashing them are viewed as some kind of kooks. Well kook I am. And, kook I shall remain.
Regards,
Ann
Those who raise visibility for problems that most people can not clearly understand can often be easily discredited by smear campaigns. I assure my readers that Ann is NOT a kook. She has had a much clearer view of this problem than even I did for a very long time.
Spammers steal our time and that is why we hate spam so much. Finding out that Akismet is sending many of our comments directly to spam or worse – deleting them outright – also steals our time.
Make no mistake about this:
Twitter: GrowMap
June 8, 2010 at 1:35 pm
Twitter: @GrowMap
I just received an email that included this question: “I was just speaking with our web manager, and he said, why don’t these folks just use a catcha. Bots almost never read them. That would take care of 95% of the spam problem without running into PR problems that lose following.”
While there are spammers and bots that can now get past captchas,
Kikolani Kristi and I are discussing why we use Akismet instead in chat. She wrote, “People hate captchas… seems like if you explained there was less chance of their comment being deleted out, they would be ok with that though.”
Given the choice between possibly having all your comments sent directly to spam and deleted in blogs that have the “delete spam comments instantly” feature turned on would you rather see us all use captcha instead?
We would definitely want to use one that is easiest to read – some of them are really challenging.
Math is another option. I was using Peter’s Math plugin but had to disable it at least until I determine how to change some setting that caused it to conflict with the cache plugin we need to use.
.-= growmap´s featured blog ..Father’s Day Word of Mouth Gift Card Giveaway =-.
I think it is a bit of a glitch caused by the new upgrade to Akismet. I checked with my host and there were no such blocks in place and the domain was not black-listed. Clicking this button probably refreshes the system. Certainly it seems to resolve the problem and cleared the alert message and shows that everything is running fine.
Twitter: GrowMap
June 8, 2010 at 12:33 pm
Twitter: @GrowMap
I am leaving this comment so that readers of this post can see an example of Copied Comment Spam. This comment was copied from this WordPress support page.
This illustrates very well the issue of what bloggers want versus what businesses need versus the challenges for those who can not write English well to make a living online.
The reason they use copied comments is that they can barely write English. The reason businesses hire them is because incoming links are so critical to staying in business. More incoming links = better search engine ranking = more leads and sales.
This issue is seriously compounded by the fact that one search engine has a virtual monopoly on business leads and sales now because Internet users have handed it them. The solution is to USE OTHER SEARCH ENGINES.
My personal favorite search engine is DuckDuckGo and I could use your assistance to encourage my favorite Blog Search Engine to add them as an option.
If you have other independent search engines you prefer please leave them as replies to this comment. [NOTE: by independent I mean not the big three - any others not owned or controlled by multi-national Corporations.]
We as bloggers have the opportunity to change the direction our economy is heading. All we have to do is start supporting small businesses both online and off by recommending them, reviewing them, writing about them and especially by learning how to properly use anchor text when we link to anyone.
.-= growmap´s featured blog ..Father’s Day Word of Mouth Gift Card Giveaway =-.
Twitter: laforge129
June 8, 2010 at 2:16 pm
Twitter: @laforge129
Captcha’s are good to a point but I would like to remind people that bots and people have gotten around Captcha’s quite easily. That not saying that Captcha’s are useless but that does mean it is just as easy to get around them as it is Akismet. That being said nothing is 100% fool proof or spam proof, every blog can get a spam message once in a while and not even know. The problem I am seeing is that there is no way to blacklist or whitelist IP’s or even Email address so that we can have more control on who can post. I am sure I am not the only one on this matter but bloggers have been dealing with this problem ever since we started blogging and it will require more control on Wordpress to keep those loyal readers and commenters from leaving because they feel they aren’t being heard. That is the main problem right now with Akismet!!
.-= techlinkblog´s featured blog ..I have disabled Disqus and enabled CommentLuv!! =-.
Twitter: GrowMap
June 9, 2010 at 4:17 pm
Twitter: @GrowMap
Yes, captchas will do nothing to stop live spammers. IP blockers don’t work because any effective spammer knows how to cloak their IP.
I have ideas on how Akismet could be improved but I don’t know if they would be interested in hearing them. I’ll do what I can.
You mention that being taken to a blank page after posting a comment usually means the comment got deleted. I’ve had this happen to me numerous times but didn’t realise what was happening.
Sometimes I’ve returned to a blog post I’ve commented on a few days later to see that my comment (in which I’ve tried to be intelligent and add value to the initial post) has been accepted, only to find it hasn’t.
However, I see comments dated after mine accepted that only say things things like “Nice post” and I sit there dumbfounded as to why their spammy comment is there and my legit one isn’t. I though it was individual bloggers removing my comments for some reason, but perhaps it is this instead.
Twitter: GrowMap
June 8, 2010 at 12:20 pm
Twitter: @GrowMap
Hi Gillian,
I am certain that it IS this instead that is deleting your comments and leaving those others. Did you know there are bloggers that install KeywordLuv and then report anyone who uses business related keywords as spammers?
Obviously they don’t “get” the whole concept OR they think it is only for their buddies.
All of us who understand how all this works must start keeping track of where we leave comments and which appear and which do not.
I often now also save my entire comment in Tomboy Notes or publish them at FriendFeed. That way I can copy and paste it back in if the blogger asks for it.
I use FriendFeed when I know the site is unlikely to approve what I wrote or when I want to comment on a site that requires registering or logging in to comment.
Serious commentators would do well to create a spreadsheet and keep track of every comment they leave. I hate having to do that and haven’t been but I will definitely start now.
.-= growmap´s featured blog ..Support Small Businesses =-.
well this explains what akismet is – something i’ve never bothered to figure out even though i use wordpress for all my sites. Its a bummer that its filtering out lots of good comments. I don’t know if you should turn it off though, if you’re already fielding 150+ comments, how many would you be fielding without it? yikes!
Twitter: laforge129
June 7, 2010 at 9:13 pm
Twitter: @laforge129
It really just depends on the volume. Although there is no guarantee that you will get 150 comments a day. It can be more or less, just like searches and user participation is the key. So turning it off won’t ebb the flow but it will let the blog owner see the comments that are being erased!!
.-= techlinkblog´s featured blog ..I have disabled Disqus and enabled CommentLuv!! =-.
Twitter: GrowMap
June 8, 2010 at 12:09 pm
Twitter: @GrowMap
Hi Cat,
Akismet is the most widely used method for preventing really objectionable spam from appearing in WordPress blogs that prefer to allow comments to go live right away.
As the (currently) most important spam plugin they have a responsibility to be responsive to the WordPress blogging community. If they wish to continue to be the most used plugin they need to be transparent about what they do with our comments.
The reason I have always used Akismet is that I prefer not to pre-moderate comments because that is a burden on commentators who never know if their comment will appear later today, tomorrow, next week or never!
Believe me, Cat, I do not look forward to finding out how many more spam comments are being deleted automatically. It could be dozens or even hundreds – but if Akismet really is NOT deleting comments it should be just about the same as I see in spam now.
.-= growmap´s featured blog ..How CommentLuv Grows Businesses and Blogs =-.
Akismet is a great anti spam filter plug in. We’re using it in one of our blogs. It really saves time and hustle to check spammy comments.
.-= Teena@Skydiving Sydney´s featured blog ..Extreme Whale Watching, SPECIAL OFFER 2-FOR-1 – Jervis Bay, NSW SAVE $85 =-.
Twitter: GrowMap
June 8, 2010 at 11:36 am
Twitter: @GrowMap
Yes Teena, but at what cost? How will you feel when it is your comments that are instantly deleted – and that IS very likely because you are promoting a business and many bloggers equate business URLS or keywords with spammers.
The business you are promoting could benefit from requesting their free local search directory listings as I explain in the post I featured in CommentLuv in this reply. Many but not all of the directories are U.S. based but the largest are not.
.-= growmap´s featured blog ..Local Search Directory Listings =-.
Hi,
As I said in answer to your emails:
The Akismet plugin for WordPress does not delete or hide spam comments unless the user has specifically requested it to, by checking the “discard spam comments on old posts” box. It’s controlled by the user, and totally optional.
The default is for that feature to be switched off.
I’d appreciate it if you could correct your article to reflect this.
Twitter: GrowMap
June 7, 2010 at 3:15 pm
Twitter: @GrowMap
Hello Alex,
As I explained in this post, I personally wrote a comment in one blog using the name and URL I use for commenting in another blog. When that comment did not IMMEDIATELY go live as that blog is configured to allow I logged into the blog where I left that comment, went into the spam folder and the comment was NOT there.
I waited 24 hours and then 48 and the comment never appeared. I then went to the page which has now been removed and did tests on multiple names and URLs I use for commenting only to find that many of them did not appear on that blog.
I am willing to concede that the comment not appearing COULD be because of some other technical issue and am willing to do additional tests to diagnose the exact cause. I will test to see if I can reproduce the problem and I will keep watching to make sure if I can’t now it doesn’t come back.
I know about the feature to have Akismet automatically discard spam comments on old posts and none of my blogs is configured to do that.
I also know that many bloggers never check their spam folders and because of that Akismet’s policy of sending an ever increasing number of comments directly into SPAM is just as bad in those blogs as deleting them altogether.
My readers know that I always tell the entire truth as I understand it and we will get to the bottom of this issue. They also know that if I find I am wrong that I will publicly say so and will share all the facts and research I am able to compile.
There needs to be a major discussion on just what spam is and how many “strikes” as one of my commentators calls them it takes to have your comments relegated to spam.
Even some very well known bloggers do not check their spam folders. I believe they should. Many new bloggers would not know to do that. Because those two things are true, it is important that Akismet’s criterion for what is spam needs to be clarified and the number of reports increased to reduce false positives.
That Akismet removed our ability to check to see which names and URLs we commonly use when commenting are being sent directly to spam (or disappearing – it is impossible to tell which using the function that was available on that page) makes it more challenging for us to know what needs to be unbanned.
We need to know in advance – BEFORE we waste our time writing comments that will never get through to the blogger – which names and URLs don’t work and which do. We need that function to be available there or elsewhere.
If you would like me to do further testing knowing which names and URLs I use are affected would greatly speed that process up.
.-= growmap´s featured blog ..Word of Mouth Marketing =-.
The title of this article is “Akismet is Deleting Comments We NEVER SEE!”. That’s simply not true. Akismet will only ever discard a message unseen if you ask it to (with the “discard” option) – something your article doesn’t acknowledge. It’s quite misleading, as a glance at the comments here will show.
So let me say it again, loud and clear: the Akismet plugin for WordPress will never delete comments unseen unless the owner of the blog has explicitly asked it to. That’s our official answer, on the record. You don’t have to take my word for it – our plugin code is open source, so you can review it for yourself to confirm it.
If something is causing comments to disappear on your blog and you don’t have the “discard” option turned on, that something is not Akismet.
The test site is there to help Akismet staff diagnose problems. There are any number of reasons a comment may or may not appear there, many of which have nothing to do with Akismet – it requires staff intervention to check. We’ve disabled it temporarily because too many people were misinterpreting its results (your comments didn’t appear because they were moderated). We received no requests from you asking for help or indicating that comments posted by you were incorrectly caught as spam. We would have helped if we did. We’ll be happy to help you (or anyone else) now if you’d like to contact Akismet support with the details.
To those pointing out that different people have different opinions of the definition of spam: you’re absolutely right! Everyone has a different opinion of what is and is not spam. Each blog has its own individual standards and policies for the kinds of comments they accept and the kinds they don’t. That’s perfectly fine – it’s why Akismet produces different results on each blog. Akismet learns each blog owner’s standards and policies from the feedback they provide in the form of spam and ham reports.
In other words, a comment that is considered ok on one blog might be considered spam on another. That’s up to the blog owner to decide. Akismet will learn what each individual blog owner wants and adjust its results accordingly.
Gail, the problems you’re describing (comments disappearing, large volumes of missed spam) are consistent with an external problem, such as a buggy WordPress plugin or theme, a bug in WordPress itself, and/or a network issue. If you’d like to contact Akismet support with the details (including specific examples of recent missed spam and false positives) we’ll do our best to help track down the cause. You’re running an old version of WordPress which does in fact have a bug that is known to incorrectly spam some comments (even when Akismet says they’re not spam).
Twitter: GrowMap
June 8, 2010 at 2:37 pm
Twitter: @GrowMap
Alex from Akismet wrote (in the comment I am replying to here but that may appear above other replies made before this one):
“The title of this article is “Akismet is Deleting Comments We NEVER SEE!”. That’s simply not true. Akismet will only ever discard a message unseen if you ask it to (with the “discard” option).”
Most bloggers were NOT aware of that before I wrote this post. I edited my title to Akismet Deletes Comments Bloggers Never See because that is absolutely true. I remain unconvinced that Akismet does not delete comments we never see in our own blogs even when that check box is NOT checked.
Akismet IS deleting our comments that we leave in other blogs. We are not privvy to how other bloggers have their Akismet configured. Bloggers DO NOT know that and those checking that box do not realize how many of their favorite commentators’ comments are being immediately deleted.
And now you have removed the method that allows bloggers and other Internet users to find out which names and URLs they can no longer use because they are already considered spam.
The blogs I was using when I saw that comment NOT ever appear do NOT have that option checked. It does not use any other comment related plugins such as WPSpamFree that exhibit similar behavior. Maybe there is another technical issue involved and maybe there isn’t BUT the bottom line is this:
I never write anything based on what I see in only one blog or only one business. I confirm everything on multiple sites and with many very experienced collaborators.
Even if the problem with comments disappearing is never seen again it is important that bloggers who use Akismet clearly understand the serious negative implications to others that flagging them as spam or turning on that check box has.
Click on Plugins in your left sidebar and then ALSO IN THE LEFT SIDEBAR find Akismet Configuration and uncheck it if is is checked.
I will add screen captures showing where that is to this post shortly.
One other very important point. Akismet does NOT only send comments to spam based on what that individual blogger has flagged. It sends comments to spam (or deletes them outright) based on what others have reported. This is why that is critical:
Once a name or URL has been flagged as SPAM their future comments are sent directly to spam (or deleted if that box is checked). Many bloggers never check their spam folders and will not ever read this post so they won’t know what that box is doing.
This is important because it is individuals and small local and online businesses who need this visibility and ability to reach each other the most.
Anything that reduces our ability to connect with each other hands power over us to the plutocrats who control our lives too much now – and if you think it is bad now, as the song lyric goes “you ain’t seen nothing yet”.
.-= growmap´s featured blog ..Word of Mouth Marketing =-.
Twitter: kikolani
June 7, 2010 at 3:29 pm
Twitter: @kikolani
I think the concern isn’t the ones in the spam filter that get discarded. I think the concern are the comments that do not come up period. I have tried this on my own website after being emailed by someone saying they commented and it never showed up in the backend. I used their same information on my blog using Akismet, and then got the white screen when submitting it. When I went into the back end, there was no record of it in the approved, pending, or spam filters. But if I used other credentials, I was able to get a pending comment just fine.
I have seen this happen on other WordPress blogs. I have commented on other blogs and gotten the white screen, or just sent back to the original post with no indication that a comment had been submitted, emailed the blog owner, and have them tell me no comment came through.
I have also tested on a WordPress.com blog that I own, and when I entered a comment on it using the same credentials it automatically gave me a message that the comment was spam and was deleted. When I logged into the WordPress.com account, sure enough, the comment was not anywhere in the backend.
I personally love how much Akismet filters out of my blog, but I would like to be comforted by the fact that all comments will end up somewhere in the backend so I can approve it if I choose, as opposed to wondering if someone’s comments are never coming through. I would think that if Akismet can put a comment filled with a two page long x-rated romance story with about 15 – 20 “special keyword” links, it can send all comments through and let me decide whether I want to delete them completely or not.
.-= Kristi@Blogging Tips´s featured blog ..Simple On-Page Tag Optimization for Bloggers =-.
Twitter: dereksemmler
June 7, 2010 at 4:18 pm
Twitter: @dereksemmler
As I have been following along with the discussion and testing of various name / URL combinations with respect to how they are, or are not, showing up on blogs using Akismet, I tried to look at this from the perspective that there might be something else at play that is causing this behavior.
However, the fact that only certain name / URL values are resulting in the white screen with the comment not even appearing in the blog owners spam / awaiting moderation comment list leads me to believe that it is in fact Akismet filtering out these comments. If it were something other than Akismet, I would imagine that it would not be as easily reproducible for only those combinations and that it would happen more often, and most likely more randomly.
One other thought that I had was the possibility that the comments resulting in the white screen had special characters in them that could potentially cause a problem in the WordPress database, thus explaining why the comment was never fully submitted. However, I would suspect that people that have experience with leaving comments would not be using such characters in the name or URL that they are submitting.
I have had experience with commentators that have been stuck in my spam queue, even though I consistently marked their comments as not being spam. While I have not heard from anyone that has left a comment on my blog that did not show up, it appears that I would not know this unless they contacted me to ask what happened to their comment as it would not even be in my queue for me to take action.
As much as I would like to believe that there is something else at play here preventing certain comments from showing up anywhere on the blog or in moderation, I have not yet come up with a rational explanation other than these comments being filtered out by Akismet. That is unfortunate for many reasons, one of which being that I have always felt that Akismet has done a good job of identifying spam but at least providing me the option to review the comments that it believes to be spam, not simply filtering them completely.
.-= Derek´s featured blog ..Notification Day =-.
It sounds like you’ve checked the box that says “Automatically discard spam comments on posts older than a month.”
Can you report that to WordPress.com support please? To the best of my knowledge there is never any message displayed by WordPress.com that resembles the one you’re describing.
Twitter: GrowMap
June 8, 2010 at 11:34 am
Twitter: @GrowMap
We verified that the “automatically discard spam comments on posts older than a month” was NOT checked in the blog where the comment never appeared. Having a background in diagnosing computer issues, I concede that this requires more testing to truly determine where the cause(s) lie.
I say multiple because there are other plugins in use that exhibit similar behavior, especially WPSpamFree.
I first suspected that other message Derek reported might have been generated by another plugin until I realized he said he tested on a WordPress.com blog he controls. I will have to spend more time in WordPress.com blogs and note which blogs I comment in.
[NOTE: Bloggers need to realize that WordPress.com blogs and self-hosted blogs are quite different in many ways and different plugins can have varied interactions.]
I and others I collaborate with will start documenting which reactions we see in which blogs of what type from now on so we can gather information to determine the causes.
We need Akismet to restore the function that allows us to determine what names and URLs we use are banned from the start. It is unfair to bloggers who do not have multiple blogs to test this in that their time will be wasted in this way.
I would offer to assist them but there is only one of me and I am already doing all I can fit into a day. If Akismet expects us to believe they have our best interests in heart they need to give that back. Surely you have a site that is scalable enough that the post of one blogger like me can not be too much for it to handle.
.-= growmap´s featured blog ..Word of Mouth Marketing =-.
It’s real censorship. Does it mean that we loose the last freedom Temple – blogs ?
I am agreed with “Gary from machinima”, we use CommentLuv and KeywordLuv at corporate blog and have no problem when need edit inserted links.
Twitter: GrowMap
June 8, 2010 at 11:03 am
Twitter: @GrowMap
Thank you Anna for contributing to this very important discussion. In answer to you question, “Does it mean we lose the last freedom Temple – blogs” the answer is YES if we do nothing to spread the word and stop what is going on.
We must be willing to disable Akismet if that is what it takes to ensure we do not.
.-= growmap´s featured blog ..Local Search Directory Listings =-.
I have to agree with Paul Sylvester I hope that people are able to judge what is spam and what is not. Because sometimes those programs are not perfect. You have to wonder if some people are being reported as spam by Akismet that are not spamming and just are writing comments that they feel like writing. I believe in the system where people are able to report spam and not have a program do it for them.
Twitter: laforge129
June 7, 2010 at 2:37 pm
Twitter: @laforge129
I say we should Crowd source this so we can find out who are the spammers and who are truly using the comments for what they are supposed to be for!! This is Paul Sylvester, I just registered my account so I can have more of a choice with picking what I want to share!!
.-= techlinkblog´s featured blog ..Don’t Do business with: “Check Management Services [CMS]” (collection agency) =-.
Twitter: GrowMap
June 8, 2010 at 10:54 am
Twitter: @GrowMap
James, there is no doubt that most people definition of spam is far too broad. Note the examples I used in this post – those are actual statements made directly to me.
One that really concerned me was a very well educated man who has a blog who felt that spam comments were any that linked to any site that was not related to his niche.
That is really scary. No matter what your niche and what business someone else has it is VERY likely that they have an interest in what you write about even if it has nothing to do with their business.
Anyone who understands the importance of link building knows that a wise blogger or business owner builds links whenever the opportunity is there – and we are giving them that opportunity using KeywordLuv – so why should those who are interested in what we write not read our posts, comment and also get a link?
It does not matter that they are not in “our business” nor does it matter what their business is. We are all very busy. We can only read so many blogs and we only have so much time for link building. Combining the two is the perfect solution.
Paul, I am glad you registered and know that in this blog all keywords that are not obscene or profane and are related to businesses of most all kinds are welcome. (Those not welcome already know who you are.)
One challenge is that the spammers know how to get around filters. They have tools that cloak their IPs so IP bans don’t work. They have ways to slightly change the wording of comments so they aren’t exactly the same each time.
Only those who do not spam for a living are unaware of what technology can and can not do. How many bloggers that you know have any idea that THEIR real comments are being flagged as spam?
Many bloggers are far too quick with the spam button. Some will even report any comment from anyone they don’t already know as spam! They truly do not realize the implications of their actions on those innocent commentators.
We must always remember that every person knows different things about each and every topic. Few know as much about technology as we do and they never will so we can not give them a weapon they don’t know how to use properly and not expect bad consequences.
.-= growmap´s featured blog ..Word of Mouth Marketing =-.
I agree with this. Not all people has the ability to switch their HATS into a level of professionals. I feel bad about those people who just want to show interest in Topics they want to learn/discuss.
I personally think this is just another scenario of “If it’s none of your business, then just sit there and listen.” pretty sad.
Twitter: mikeroosa
June 7, 2010 at 1:27 pm
Twitter: @mikeroosa
Interesting findings. I never mark anything for spam. I do have akismet and spamfree installed but if they don’t catch it, I let it go through.
.-= Mike Roosa´s featured blog ..Hitting The Snooze Button =-.
Twitter: laforge129
June 7, 2010 at 2:11 pm
Twitter: @laforge129
I wonder if It would help if she let everything through and have people report the spam messages, that might give Akesmit a chance to figure out what is truly spam and what is real!!
.-= Paul Sylvester´s featured blog ..Watch Doctor Who Season 5 Episode 7 : “Amy’s Choice” =-.
Twitter: GrowMap
June 7, 2010 at 3:34 pm
Twitter: @GrowMap
Hi Mike,
Objectionable, real spam still gets through Akismet. Lately I have had to manually moderate recently approved comments to catch them. I also regularly delete weak comments left by outsourced SEO types especially when they leave more than one in the same post.
I am more liberal on leaving comments than most because this is a teaching blog and if I just delete them they don’t learn anything. If I explain how the comment can be improved or why most bloggers would think it was spam they’ll get better.
Incoming links with appropriate anchor text is what helps blogs and small businesses to be found in the search results for keyword phrases that are highly relevant and important to them.
It is a good thing for us all to assist them in doing that. When their businesses succeed they have money to hire more people and buy from other small businesses and THAT is the key to improving our economy.
That is why we use KeywordLuv and CommentLuv and encourage bloggers to welcome commentators who have businessess.
.-= growmap´s featured blog ..How CommentLuv Grows Businesses and Blogs =-.
Twitter: laforge129
June 7, 2010 at 3:50 pm
Twitter: @laforge129
I would have to agree on that part. I am more strict when it comes to obvious spam and that is what annoys me. I have to moderate every comment because of the chance that there is one that is irrelevant and just tastes like spam. I am going to use Askismet the next few weeks to see if I am also getting the same problem as others. I have added the KeywordLuv Plugin also because I find that might encourage people to post more! Have you seen a difference in the amount of posting on your blog??
.-= techlinkblog´s featured blog ..Sometimes I don’t want to be Human but an Android! =-.
Twitter: GrowMap
June 8, 2010 at 10:46 am
Twitter: @GrowMap
Like all useful tools, KeywordLuv is a double-edged sword. It definitely increases readers, subscribers and commentators from among those who understand the importance of link building.
It also attracts many commentators who write English poorly or are paid for link building who have no idea what they are doing. I do my best to assist everyone to understand the importance of link building and also how not to be a spammer.
My post about CommentLuv has some excellent advice for blog owners and commentators. Another is Tips for Leaving Comments That Don’t Get Deleted – Contributor or SPAMMER?.
Bloggers are welcome to link to those posts or use excerpts in their commenting policies if they wish. Everything I write is to spread awareness and others are welcome to use liberal excerpts and ideally to link to the rest for the few who want more details.
.-= growmap´s featured blog ..Father’s Day Word of Mouth Gift Card Giveaway =-.
On one hand, it sounds like Akismet is supposed to monitor the comments, to keep down the spam. Isn’t that the whole purpose of the application, after all?
On the other hand, any and all comments that are filtered should be set in a folder for the site administrator to view.
[NOTE FROM GROWMAP: Your comment went directly into spam so you have been reported as a spammer and Akismet is putting every comment you leave into either into SPAM or deleting it instantly OR a word in your comment triggered it going into spam.]
Twitter: GrowMap
June 9, 2010 at 4:10 pm
Twitter: @GrowMap
Hi Jennifer,
Yes, we need REAL spam to be filtered. The problem here is that so many who are not spammers are now banned from getting their comments through in every WordPress blog that uses Akismet – people like YOU who don’t even use keywords.
I can not speak to whether you ever wrote a spammy sounding comment but I can share that many of the names and URLs I use when commenting are flagged as SPAM and many intelligent bloggers I know personally who comment here are sent immediately to spam which means THEY have all been flagged as spammers too.
Akismet’s official spokesman has commented in this post that Akismet deletes comments immediately written by every person who has been flagged as a spammer in any blog that has a box checked – a box that most do not realize does what it does or they would never use it.
Read more about when Akismet deletes comments.
Who is flagged as a spammer? You, me, Techlinkblog and so many more.
Whose comments instantly get deleted even if they are not flagged as spammers? Anyone who uses a word or phrase Akismet blacklists because it doesn’t like them.
One problem with the people who design these types of filters is that they are anti-business. They block words like business, marketing, selling, etc. so any of us who comment on those subjects are particularly affected by this.
Those are NOT dirty words. Selling is not inherently bad and marketing is not inherently evil. In trying to cut down on real spammers they have eliminated the ability of real businesses to gain visibility and for us to find the best products and services.
I hope many will take time to read my post about Word of Mouth Marketing that has more to say on that subject.
.-= growmap´s featured blog ..Word of Mouth Marketing =-.
Twitter: laforge129
June 7, 2010 at 12:29 pm
Twitter: @laforge129
I find that Disqus does a really good job with comments and spam. Have you thought of using Disqus instead of Wordpress in your wordpress blog??
http://disqus.com
.-= Paul Sylvester´s featured blog ..Watch Doctor Who Season 5 Episode 7 : “Amy’s Choice” =-.
Twitter: GrowMap
June 7, 2010 at 12:54 pm
Twitter: @GrowMap
Disqus and IntenseDebate both have other issues and many serious bloggers hate them both. Any system that forces you to try to log in wastes time and we have so much to accomplish and precious little to waste.
Most of us are firmly in the DoFollow CommentLuv KeywordLuv camp and that is where we plan to stay. Hopefully someone who sees this will have or be willing to create an alternative plugin we can use to replace Akismet.
Most likely Akismet is functioning precisely as designed and they have no motivation to change it. Only a small percentage of thinkers will care and the masses will not ever realize what is going on.
[HINT for those reading this: If you understand what I write you ARE one of the few who think. Just wanted to let you know because often those with the most wisdom do not realize why they are "different". It is because you are awake and paying attention!]
.-= growmap´s featured blog ..Support Small Businesses =-.
Twitter: websitewiz
June 7, 2010 at 1:11 pm
Twitter: @websitewiz
I just did a quick test of Disqus, and it failed to incorporate existing comments, even though it is supposed to do so. I followed the provided instructions to accomplish this.
Twitter: laforge129
June 7, 2010 at 2:09 pm
Twitter: @laforge129
@coffeefandrl I find Disqus takes an hour to two to incorporate your messages into their system. You just have to make sure to export your comments after the first install and wait about an hour or two then you should see all comments on disqus from your board!!
.-= Paul Sylvester´s featured blog ..Watch Doctor Who Season 5 Episode 7 : “Amy’s Choice” =-.
Twitter: GrowMap
June 7, 2010 at 3:22 pm
Twitter: @GrowMap
Thanks Paul for assisting Lane. I’m still not a fan of Disqus though. Anything that slows down my ability to get more done is not good for me.
.-= growmap´s featured blog ..Father’s Day Word of Mouth Gift Card Giveaway =-.
Twitter: websitewiz
June 7, 2010 at 10:37 am
Twitter: @websitewiz
I think we’re getting an advance look at what it will be like when the feds start “protecting” us from all the confusing information that’s available to us on the Internet. President Obama, in a recent commencement speech, described just how serious is the problem. Think how much simpler life will be when we are only provided with “information” the government selects for us.
Twitter: GrowMap
June 7, 2010 at 11:09 am
Twitter: @GrowMap
Yes, Lane, that is precisely where this is going. I hope many others have their research and thousands of links to important information saved offline so they can get to it and share it when it can no longer be found in search engines.
Unfortunately, all Internet traffic is routed through AT&T’s servers so they can actually filter out results even from independent search engines whenever they choose to do so. Read about how we know this from testimony from an AT&T Technician involved in the AT&T Class Action lawsuit. That link is to the story at Wired. I have many others.
We already live in a Police State and some are trying to Save the Internet as we know it.
Most Windows users have given third parties access to their hard drives and keep their email on Webmail servers where they give up what few privacy rights are available to us. There is a severe lack of Webmail privacy and very little email privacy.
I am willing to bet that few reading this already knew any of it and if they heard it before the implications simply did not register. Every time I think about this subject something Ann Landers or Dear Abby published when I was a little girl comes to mind (this version borrowed from this post about Professor Erlinder:
“THEY CAME FIRST for the Communists,
and I didn’t speak up because I wasn’t a Communist.
THEN THEY CAME for the trade unionists,
and I didn’t speak up because I wasn’t a trade unionist.
THEN THEY CAME for the Jews,
and I didn’t speak up because I wasn’t a Jew.
THEN THEY CAME for me
and by that time no one was left to speak up.”
Those living in Germany during the time this was written about never saw it coming. They denied it when it was happening. Some still deny it now. When I was young I never understood that quote that “Those who refuse to study history are destined to repeat it”. I truly do now.
.-= growmap´s featured blog ..Support Small Businesses =-.
I guess it’s not easy to classify spam. I have keywordluv, commentluv and if I don’t like a particular site (because of it’s niche) I still approve the comment but edit out the URL. Akismet has twice blocked a buyer who wanted to ask the banner prize on one of my blogs, thankfully the buyer tried a whois and contacted me directly. Before I comment on a blog, I look carefully if the blog is approving any comments at all.
I see other spam protection plugins like wp-hashcash, wp-spamfree and bad behavior, I wonder if there more false positives in those systems.
Twitter: GrowMap
June 7, 2010 at 10:27 am
Twitter: @GrowMap
Thank you for taking the time to comment Gary,
Thinking bloggers delink comments and delete those that are obviously spam or contain objectionable content but we do not report sincere commentators as spammers.
Many of the blogs I comment in use wp-spamfree and I truly dislike some aspects of how it works. When you enter a comment containing any word it doesn’t like you get told your comment is “spammy”.
If you’re lucky you can click back and edit the comment. If you’re not the comment disappears and I bet most commentators just “pick up their marbles and go home” when that happens. I have to REALLY want to comment to write a comment again.
That has trained me to always copy my comments before I hit submit. If I believe a site will not publish my opinion – like this comment I would have made about the Google MayDay Update that SEL refused to approve – I publish them at FriendFeed or StumbleUpon or here.
Some words WPSpamFree will not allow are marketing and business – words I often use because I collaborate with other blogs on how to grow businesses and Internet marketing strategies.
Thank you for mentioning the others. That gives me a place to start looking for an alternative.
For those who, like me, don’t know what Machinama is, here is Gary’s definition: “achinima is not just a realtime form of animation, it is the art of cinematography in a virtual environment.”
.-= growmap´s featured blog ..Twitter Tools: Managing Multiple Twitter Accounts =-.
Twitter: TheJohnSoares
June 7, 2010 at 9:39 am
Twitter: @TheJohnSoares
Gail, this sounds like a very serious problem. I use Akismet and it blocks most spam. I write six blogs, so I do get a lot of comment spam, including some that gets through the filter. I probably mark 5-10 comments a day as spam, but I’m always careful when I do so because I know how powerful that is.
I’ve also found that certain words trigger a block of my comment. “Selling” seems to be one of them.
I like your idea to try to get Akismet to be more responsive and responsible with the power they have. I don’t think it’s likely that an alternative will displace Akismet. They seem like the Facebook of spam blockers, but I don’t know the actual numbers for the different anti-spam plugins.
.-= John Soares @ Information Products´s featured blog ..Second Twitter Account? Your Help Needed… =-.
Twitter: GrowMap
June 7, 2010 at 10:48 am
Twitter: @GrowMap
Hi John,
Akismet is ubiquitous in WordPress blogs but that does not mean they can do whatever they want and we should condone and allow it. You are wise enough to know the power of marking others as spam but most new bloggers don’t.
Even many experienced bloggers see spam as anything they are not interested in seeing and click spam on tons of legitimate comments. I have no doubt that selling, marketing and business are all black-listed in many spam filters but what if our blogs are ABOUT marketing and the solution for our economic woes is supporting small businesses – which I firmly believe it IS?
In the past whoever controlled the media controlled the buying habits of the masses. The same people control the media, multi-national “Big Brands” Corporations and Google, Yahoo, Bing, Facebook, MySpace, Twitter and tons of Web sites beholden to them.
We have a choice to make. We either let them take back the power to reach each other or we consciously stop giving them that power. Please read the comment I wrote that links to Google’s vision for cleaning up the Internet cesspool for more details.
.-= growmap´s featured blog ..The Truth About Buying UPC Codes =-.
Twitter: TheJohnSoares
June 7, 2010 at 12:02 pm
Twitter: @TheJohnSoares
Gail, I agree with you. This is a scary situation.
Hopefully the Akismet folks will listen to reason. I also hope they don’t have a one-strike-and-your-out policy. I think a commentator should have to have certain number of spam designations before they are actually considered spam.
.-= John Soares @ Information Products´s featured blog ..Second Twitter Account? Your Help Needed… =-.
Twitter: kikolani
June 7, 2010 at 12:14 pm
Twitter: @kikolani
I don’t know how many it takes to get in the spam filter, but it takes a LOT to get out of it. I have dedicatedly marked commenters in my spam folder as safe, and it has taken months for one or two of them to get out of that area.
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Twitter: GrowMap
June 7, 2010 at 12:48 pm
Twitter: @GrowMap
Akismet pulling that test page and their silence is deafening. I know that if we keep marking a particular commentators comments as not-spam that they will stop going in the spam folder eventually, but if they never even get to the spam folder what hope do they have then?
I have never seen anyone theorize how many “spam” hits it takes to get a URL or name relegated to spam and they are never going to tell us because telling real commentators also tells the spammers and the unethical competitors who would love to keep others from using comment link-building.
The problem with that “we can’t tell you because then the bad guys will know” idea is that they’re going to figure it out anyway so why not tell the innocent who aren’t nearly as likely to have any idea they are being affected?
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Twitter: getbrowser
June 7, 2010 at 7:51 am
Twitter: @getbrowser
I am not sure. Is it a mistake or other problems that lead to this error?
Generally speaking, Akismet is a good tool to help bloggers to stop those spam actions. Without this plugin, I think many blogger will need to spend lots of time on deleting the spam comments.
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Twitter: GrowMap
June 7, 2010 at 10:19 am
Twitter: @GrowMap
You are correct Duia Chi,
If we disable Akismet we WILL have to either find an alternative or spend a lot of time moderating comments and manually deleting spam. That is a small price to pay for freedom of speech.
In this excellent post in the ConsumerCal blog post about giving up our freedoms, they quote Bruce Schneier as saying: “The famous quote attributed to Benjamin Franklin reads: “Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety.” It’s also true that those who would give up privacy for security are likely to end up with neither.”
We can NOT afford to give up any more privacy or freedoms or the illusion of freedom we have here will become all too obvious even to the sleeping.
.-= growmap´s featured blog ..Father’s Day Word of Mouth Gift Card Giveaway =-.
Twitter: ariherzog
June 7, 2010 at 7:48 am
Twitter: @ariherzog
Three items to add to this discussion:
1. Linda Christas College engages in deceptive practices, which may be why Akismet considers them spam. She and a colleague there once commented on my blog with specific verbiage, which I too had recovered from Akismet’s spam folder. But, I later learned from other bloggers who commented in response to Linda that she had written the same, exact comments on their blogs, too. I don’t need to tell you that a spammer’s characteristic is a duplicate comment in multiple blogs.
2. Akismet is not the only Wordpress plugin for spam. There are many others. Bad Behavior, for instance.
3. How come your disclosure policy at the top of this page doesn’t include information about commenting and spam filtering?
.-= Ari Herzog´s featured blog ..How Would You Respond… If Prevented? =-.
Twitter: GrowMap
June 7, 2010 at 10:05 am
Twitter: @GrowMap
Hello Ari,
While pasting a long message into multiple blogs instead of writing long, original comments each time is something that spammers do I would hardly call it “deceptive practices”.
Linda Cristas College recognized this issue long before I could confirm it. They are very concerned about censorship and as you can see by this post now that I have confirmed that it IS happening I am just as concerned as they are.
Yes, in frustration they have posted the same comment about this issue in multiple blogs and some bloggers first thought this was some con they were running. I assure you it is not. I have been testing this issue for a long time but only now confirmed it.
We have got to learn to discern the truth and not assume that if someone else says someone is a spammer or a liar they are. We must look at all the facts ourselves and determine what is REALLY happening.
I agree that Akismet is not the only spam plugin but it IS the one most used by bloggers and in business blogs. If their plugin causes comments to disappear they should TELL US that it does that. We should be able to opt out of that behavior. It should not quietly censor the blogging world. If you never knew it did that would YOU have figured this out for yourself?
I am unsure what you are expecting in my disclosure policy about commenting and spam filtering. Let me know and I will be happy to answer and update as needed.
Come back and read the reactions of bloggers in this post over time. I am willing to bet that none of them thought before they read this that real comments were disappearing from their blogs or that THEIR very real comments were being censored by Akismet.
.-= growmap´s featured blog ..How CommentLuv Grows Businesses and Blogs =-.
Twitter: edassery
June 7, 2010 at 7:35 am
Twitter: @edassery
I do not spam blogs still they banned me once. It was not akismet problem but one good soul actually marked my serious comment as spam on his blog. Henceforth I was getting banned on some blogs until I contacted akismet support. They were pretty good to me and got me out of the blocked list
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Twitter: GrowMap
June 7, 2010 at 9:58 am
Twitter: @GrowMap
Hello Ajith,
Please read the part of this post where I explained that bloggers have personally told me what THEY personally report as SPAM. It is impossible for any sincere, active commentator to NOT end up being reported as a spammer.
Before Akismet removed that test page I verified that I have been reported as a spammer many times for many different combinations of names and URLs for multiple different sites – mine and those I moderate for small businesses.
While some may not like my message what I write is certainly not truly spam. I never put advertisements in any site but I DO use relevant keywords in KeywordLuv blogs only. I have never hired anyone to leave links.
Every commentator is likely to get banned at some point. The problem is that the banning is invisible to most. How many hours will millions waste writing comments that disappear and never even know it? How many relationships will be damaged because the commentator falsely “assumes” that the blogger deleted their comments?
.-= growmap´s featured blog ..Father’s Day Word of Mouth Gift Card Giveaway =-.
Twitter: TechPatio
June 7, 2010 at 6:29 am
Twitter: @TechPatio
I’m not sure what is supposed to happen at the URL you link to?
http://podz.wordpress.com/2009/03/10/moved/#comment-3373
All I’m getting on that page is a post titled “Akismet love” with content “Please contact Akismet Support for help with Akismet.” – below it there’s a text saying “Checking…” and nothing never happens. No way of submitting a comment and no comments to read, either.
I personally have never experienced Akismet deleting any comments without sending them to spam first, but it’s normal behavior for spam filters to delete what they believe are “too much spam”, so to speak. I’ve seen this happen with Apple’s MobileMe several times. I also think I tried it with Gmail even. Most goes to the spam folder but if the mail is just too spammy then it doesn’t even get to you – I would imagine it’s the same with Akismet.
Still, I’d prefer to have Akismet eat a non-spam comment every now and then, than having to manually moderate THOUSANDS of comments each month.
But we’ll see if Akismet goes public with information regarding these allegations.
.-= Klaus @ TechPatio´s featured blog ..May 2010: Blog Summary & Income Report =-.
Twitter: GrowMap
June 7, 2010 at 9:49 am
Twitter: @GrowMap
LOL It appears that I have gotten Akismet’s attention and that page has changed. We can no longer use it to test whether our comments are banned or not.
I tested in multiple blogs every time Dr. Ann or one of her students complained that they were being censored and every time the comments they entered or that I entered using their information were in SPAM.
Then several days ago I saw comments disappear. Comments I WROTE that had no spam in them. I wrote them using the information for one blog submitted to another blog I moderate. The comment disappeared and NEVER showed up. I waited 48 hours. It still didn’t show up.
The danger of letting “Akismet eat a non-spam comment every now and then” is that we don’t know how many comments it will eat. What if it decides to “eat” every comment related to freedom or privacy or a particular race, religion, country or historical incident or anything related to small or online businesses or YOU?
When censorship is invisible that is when it is the most dangerous to our liberties. While I truly dread how much SPAM I would get and having to pre-moderate every comment in this blog I will if I have to in order to make sure every person has a voice online – at least here.
I delete 150+ comments every day that Akismet puts in spam. Before I do I “rescue” at least 3-4 real comments that are genuine, long and from real commentators.
Now that I know Akismet causes comments to disappear I have no way of knowing how many never end up in spam. It could be dozens or hundreds or even thousands and I do not look forward to manually managing them but I will if I find no alternative to Akismet’s censorship.
.-= growmap´s featured blog ..Twitter Tools: Managing Multiple Twitter Accounts =-.
Twitter: TechPatio
June 7, 2010 at 9:58 am
Twitter: @TechPatio
You wrote:
“The danger of letting “Akismet eat a non-spam comment every now and then” is that we don’t know how many comments it will eat. What if it decides to “eat” every comment related to freedom or privacy or a particular race, religion, country or historical incident or anything related to small or online businesses or YOU? ”
- I still don’t think you can use the word “censorship” in this case. It’s SPAM FILTERING and it usually does a good job at it, but like with e-mail spam filters, it sometimes fails
Of course it’s never nice to be caught up in a spam filter. Trust me, I know. I work in a business where we legit use words such as “free” and “money” in newsletters etc., it’s a hassle each time and also just normal e-mails between clients/providers can get caught in spam filters if their spam score is too high. It’s the price to pay for not having to manually process spam mails/comments.
Until better comes along, I’m afraid we just have to live with it or start to manually moderate. Or, of course, switch to a different plugin (in case of wordpress).
.-= Klaus @ TechPatio´s featured blog ..May 2010: Blog Summary & Income Report =-.
Twitter: GrowMap
June 7, 2010 at 10:41 am
Twitter: @GrowMap
If Akismet, Google and other huge sites decide to “filter” specific people, topics and information that IS censorship. The masses will never know the difference or if they notice they will likely do nothing. It is up to those who see where the path ahead goes to say something about it WHILE WE STILL CAN.
A filter is simply a tool used by a computer to censor specific actions, words and information.
Those who doubt what I say might read this about How Google Censorship Works.
How long will we keep thinking we pay no price for all those Free Google services?
When we are on the moderating end the price seems small – when we are the one whose voice is gone will it still seem worth it?
.-= growmap´s featured blog ..Affiliate Tips Tuesday: How to Deep Link ShareASale =-.
Twitter: TechPatio
June 7, 2010 at 10:49 am
Twitter: @TechPatio
I still think you’re calling the “censorship” gun wayyyyy too early in this case.
I have tested this myself several times and if you send a “spammy enough” e-mail to member of Apple’s MobileMe service (or hotmail for that matter), the mail NEVER gets to the user, not even in the spam folder. It’s rejected at the door step, so to speak.
Actually, with Hotmail, they can even ban your SMTP server on its IP address for a short while, meaning all other mails going to Hotmail from that mailserver for the next XX minutes (or hours?) will be rejected, never received.
.-= Klaus @ TechPatio´s featured blog ..May 2010: Blog Summary & Income Report =-.
Twitter: GrowMap
June 8, 2010 at 10:21 am
Twitter: @GrowMap
Hello Klaus,
A system that “filters” specific people, opinions and subjects IS censorship. Here is a decent definition of censorship.
That filtering can be good when it filters out what we find objectionable. The slippery slope is defining what is objectionable.
Kristi and I both find profanity and over-sexualized content unsuitable to for mixed audiences – and when I was younger what is now shown nightly during Prime Time Television would have only been seen in what are euphemistically called “Gentlemen’s Clubs”.
I have no doubt that there are many who would love to make everything I write disappear because it conflicts with their agenda and they DO have the power to do that right now.
The only thing that will keep them from using that power is the outcry from many if this blog, my comments elsewhere or even my physical person disappear. I am counting on my visibility online and allow my actions to be guided by Divine Inspiration.
.-= growmap´s featured blog ..Word of Mouth Marketing =-.
Twitter: TechPatio
June 8, 2010 at 12:16 pm
Twitter: @TechPatio
@growmap, I just submitted a comment that I think went into your spam folder – it doesn’t appear here or as “in moderation”. Please have a look.
I suppose that proves my point, in that particular post
.-= Klaus @ TechPatio´s featured blog ..iPhone 4 Wrapup from WWDC ‘10 San Francisco =-.
Twitter: GrowMap
June 9, 2010 at 3:37 pm
Twitter: @GrowMap
Hi Klaus,
Akismet DOES delete comments we never see IF we select a particular option in the configuration – an option that bloggers who were using it did not realize did what it does.
Jump to this comment for a better explanation of when Akismet deletes comments.
There are other comments in this post that speak to the reason for the white page. Alex from Automattic who is apparently the public spokesperson for Akismet answered Kristi’s comment where she said, “I used their same information on my blog using Akismet, and then got the white screen when submitting it.” with “It sounds like you’ve checked the box that says “Automatically discard spam comments on posts older than a month.”
.-= growmap´s featured blog ..Father’s Day Word of Mouth Gift Card Giveaway =-.
Twitter: websitewiz
June 7, 2010 at 5:48 am
Twitter: @websitewiz
That’s appalling news you share in this post. I’m not optimistic of a good outcome unless the Akismet maintainers do something. I went to the test site, but there doesn’t seem to be anything to do there.
Twitter: GrowMap
June 7, 2010 at 9:38 am
Twitter: @GrowMap
Hello Lane,
The problem is that few that are not very technical will understand the seriousness of this issue. On the test site you enter a comment using the name(s) and URL(s) you usually use when commenting and submit it.
If your comment appears that name and URL are NOT blocked by Akismet. If it does NOT appear that name and URL ARE being blocked by Akismet.
We can NOT tell using that test whether the comment is ending up in the SPAM folder or disappearing but if you have more than one blog you can test that.
Comment in a different blog using the name(s) and URL(s) that do not show visible comments on the Akismet site. When the comment doesn’t show up look for it in the spam folder. Most of the time it WILL be there but as of two days ago I definitely proved that sometimes the comments NEVER APPEAR IN SPAM.
That means that the blogger never sees them. They can not every approve them and get you unbanned. Every comment you make using that name or URL is simply invisible in EVERY SINGLE BLOG that uses AKISMET – unless you figure it out and manage to get Akismet to unban it.
Most will never realize what is going on so I need everyone to spread this post far and wide. Those that do often have difficulty getting unbanned.
The Twitter ID that appears here is invalid. Next time you comment if you enter a valid Twitter ID it should update all the comments across the blog.
.-= growmap´s featured blog ..Freelancers: How to Get More Freelance Work =-.
Twitter: websitewiz
June 7, 2010 at 10:28 am
Twitter: @websitewiz
Thanks for the reply. It’s obvious you’re seeing something different from me at that test site. The URL is strange: http://podz.wordpress.com/2009/03/10/moved/#comment-3373 I clicked the Home link, and it said comments were off.
Twitter: GrowMap
June 7, 2010 at 10:33 am
Twitter: @GrowMap
Hi Lane,
It appears that my post got Akismet’s attention. What was on that page when I wrote this post has been removed and I now see that the two comments I preserved in this post say “Your comment is awaiting moderation. ”
Last night they were visible and anyone could test comments there. As of yet I do not see a public response from Akismet. Surely they already know how their plugin works and could clarify if they wish.
I added screen captures of cache showing what WAS there when I wrote the post and what I see now to the bottom of this post so everyone can see clearly what has changed.
.-= growmap´s featured blog ..Support Small Businesses =-.
Akismet is doing a good job for wp users. I am using spam karma now. Going to use akismet.
.-= Katy Caroline Designs´s featured blog ..The Shack =-.
Twitter: GrowMap
June 7, 2010 at 9:31 am
Twitter: @GrowMap
That all depends on what your goals are and whether you care that comments in your blog are being censored by a third party you have no control over.
Yes, I have appreciated what Akismet has done to keep the real spam from going live instantly on this and all my other blogs and I don’t even have a huge issue with it putting comments it thinks are spam in a spam section even though I know many bloggers are not reviewing them there so they are almost as good as dead in many blogs.
What I can not condone is having them simply disappear into thin air. Hobby bloggers may not get too concerned over that but if you are serious about your blog that is totally unacceptable.
Businesses that have blogs and use Akismet are losing leads and sales because of this. No wonder Dr. Ann at Linda Christas College is so concerned about this. They are an educational site – they can not have their students and potential students being censored.
This blog provides a valuable service to businesses that can least afford advice that is proven to work. I do not want ANY business to be unable to ask their questions and get answers here.
Censorship is DANGEROUS to our Society especially when it is invisible. Any tactic that creates the equivalent of Internet Censorship will have chilling effects on us all.
The sad thing is only the few will ever recognize the problem or understand the importance – especially if widespread online censorship ends up making it harder for us to ever find those who would warn us about it!
It has only been a couple of generations since most Americans owned their own farms and businesses and understood that to survive and grow they had to be able to reach new customers.
In years past only those who had deep pockets and could buy advertising could thrive. The Internet changed that and I am the first to admit that many do not understand the difference between spamming and building relationships but that does NOT mean we should eliminate what could allow us to put our economy back on firm footing by Supporting Small Businesses.
This is far too important to keeping a roof over people’s heads and food on their tables and that is EVERYWHERE not just in the U.S.!
Word of Mouth can change the road we are on that leads to a future far worse than the Great Depression but ONLY if we do our part. More details in the post I’ve featured in CommentLuv about Word of Mouth. That post contains statistics that clearly show why the economy is NOT going to recover if we don’t change our ways. Please read it.
.-= growmap´s featured blog ..Word of Mouth Marketing =-.
Twitter: TechPatio
June 7, 2010 at 9:37 am
Twitter: @TechPatio
It’s not censorship. That’s something the whole Dr Ann-gang has going on. So I probably wouldn’t start talking about how long time it’s been since the Americans owned their own farms and business
As I said, it’s not censorship. It’s spam filtering.
It’s your own decision if you want to ‘outsource’ your spam filtering to Akismet or not. It’s the same as e-mail spam filters. We all know (or we should know) that there are chances e-mail get caught up in spam filters and many spam filters will even remove the mail (not even sending it to your spam folder) if the spam score is too high. I don’t see why Akismet should be any different on that part (but the option would be nice).
.-= Klaus @ TechPatio´s featured blog ..May 2010: Blog Summary & Income Report =-.
Twitter: GrowMap
June 7, 2010 at 4:41 pm
Twitter: @GrowMap
Hi Klaus,
Although Dr. Ann is the one who first raised this issue they have little to do with my writing this post. It contains information about comments I wrote that never made it into the blog.
It also has a comment from Kristi about specifically what she sees when comments don’t go through. Her description of the blank white page is clear and accurate.
The fact that email spam filters introduce a similar challenge to getting email delivered is not a good reason to have comment filters doing the same thing.
Few Internet users realize that their ISPs are trashing a large percentage of their emails including important email from clients in their quest to eliminate or at least control the massive quantities of spam.
That is why I tell people they MUST use closed loop communication. Do NOT assume that the recipient received the email you sent or the chat message or the Tweet until they TELL you they did. None of these methods is 100% reliable.
In the case of both email and blog comment filtering, the goal should be to remove REAL spam and not emails or comments we want to see. How much “collateral false positive damage” is acceptable depends on your point of view.
Those who are sick of spam may think it is better to have some false positives than it is to let some spam slide through while those who are trying to contact you or someone who invested much time in writing a thoughtful comment about your post will be very unhappy to find their comment disappears.
Even worse is that many bloggers don’t test their comment forms so using them doesn’t always work and emailing you either using an address you provide or via the contact form may not make it through your email spam filter.
Bloggers need to make sure their contact form accepts URLs – many do not and that means anyone who tries to contact you who can’t figure that out on their own (most average Internet users) will not be able to get a message to you except in your comments.
I agree with Kristi that it is strange that really obvious spam gets through over and over but real comments do not. This IS an indication that whatever algorithm Akismet is using could stand improving. Every day I get dozens of pharmaceutical related spam messages – how do THOSE get through?
I want to say in defense of anyone working to perfect a spam filter that it is definitely NOT a simple task. The spammers have great motivation to find a way to get their messages through because there is so much money in what they promote.
I did not write this post lightly – I have done a lot of research to determine why comments go missing and I have defended the use of Akismet to Dr. Ann and others because it DOES provide a very valuable, time-saving service to bloggers.
Without a good anti-spam plugin pre-moderating every comment would HAVE to be done or our blogs will be flooded with objectionable comment spam containing non-G-rated words and subjects.
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Twitter: LottoMan01
June 17, 2010 at 5:32 pm
Twitter: @LottoMan01
I used to allow Dr. Ann’s comments until she started using my comments section to as a soapbox about how Akismet was censoring her students. I say the exact same comments on many other blogs. It’s no wonder some people got upset and started spamming her comments.
She would have been far better off using the content form.
.-= Sire@The Knight In Shining Armor´s featured blog ..The Importance Of Honesty In Blogging =-.
Twitter: GrowMap
June 19, 2010 at 12:30 pm
Twitter: @GrowMap
Hi Sire,
I did express to Ann that commenting in blogs about the Akismet problem was probably not the best way to do that; however, we can not argue with the fact that it did eventually get results.
.-= Gail @ CommentLuv´s featured blog ..How CommentLuv Grows Businesses and Blogs =-.
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